The biggest argument against removing Biden from the ticket against his will is that we went through a bunch of primaries, and he has won enough delegates to be the nominee. For the party that claims to be about protecting democracy, it would be a stretch to tell all those Primary voters “Hey, guess what? Your vote doesn’t really count” so directly.
But, there are contingency plans for a reason. If Biden’s doctors decide he has a sudden case of chronic not-gonna-win-itis that is affecting his health, and he gets a sudden medical diagnosis that forces him from the race (and the Presidency), there are precisely two people who can take over without the Democratic Party totally abandoning the democratic process:
the newly minted 47th President. Kamala Harris. While she did not get any delegates herself, as Biden’s VP she shares the ticket and would take over the Presidency once he backs out.
Dean Phillips , who as far as I know is the only other candidate to get any Primary delegates. No, “uncommitted” doesn’t count.
Nobody else can swoop in and take over, because they have no legitimate relationship to the Biden ticket, or to the primaries.
Yes, the primaries may be a huge joke, but they at least have the veneer of democracy over them. Primaries are formal elections run by each state, so there are laws to follow regarding how delegates are applied.
Here’s what I think now: I’m sure Barack Obama watched that debate, and came to the same conclusion we all did. If anyone has Biden’s ear on this, it’s Obama. Obama needs to get on the phone with Joe, and have a heart-to-heart about how fucking devastating that thing was. He should point out how much damage was done by RBG not retiring when it was her time to do so. I’m sure he had those discussions directly with her in 2015.
(Edited to add: according to the NYT, Obama’s not going there
“Bad debate nights happen,” Mr. Obama said in a statement. “Trust me, I know. But this election is still a choice between someone who has fought for ordinary folks his entire life and someone who only cares about himself.”
I still have confidence that Joe can do the job, but not so much that he is electable anymore. I hope I’m wrong, and in November, if he is on the ballot I will still vote for him, and not regret it.
In retrospect, maybe we should have had a Primary debate after all.
In retrospect, maybe we should have had a Primary debate after all
We need to every election.
Bernie pulled Biden’s campaign (if nothing else) to the left, which helped Biden in an incredibly close general.
The primary is a chance for party voters to show what they want, and the winning candidate then knows where his bread is buttered.
With no primary, there’s no one to pull Biden left, and he cant afford to lose any votes from 2020.
But this time Biden doesn’t give a fuck what voters say unless they’re saying how great he is. It’s the same sense of entitlement that cost Hillary her election and got trump his first term.
Maybe the party needs to adopt bylaws saying that there shall be no fewer than three candidates in any Presidential primary, even for an incumbant. That will take away a bit of the stigma against challenging an incumbent. It would no longer be a direct challenge to the establishment, and more of a party role to fill.
The stigma of primary challenges exists because old guard Dems want everything to run off seniority, because they have the seniority.
And you could kind of make that argument when it was capping out at 30 years experience.
Biden has been in the federal government for about half a century.
When there’s no cap to age, people hang around waiting for their turn, which clogs senior positions and prevents you get generations from getting experience.
It all comes down to old people refusing to step aside for the next generations, and those old people all agreeing that they should hold onto power till they die in office.
They won’t step aside, so for the good of the party, they need to be set aside.
Voters are more important than any party. We don’t need them, they need us.
Yeah the problem I think with the idea they can nominate someone else at the convention are that I believe the delegates are obligated under the first ballot to vote as they were voted. So Biden’s going to win the first ballot. There’s no way not to have that happen. If there were enough other candidates that the first ballad wasn’t enough to reach the threshold then yeah they could all change their votes after. That’s just not the case because nobody ran against Joe Biden. Or nobody worth even the time it would take to spell their name properly here.
I agree if it happens it should be Kamala, I only bring Dean Phillips up because he actually has a handful of delegates pledged to him. It is less of a stretch to pick someone who campaigned for the job and actually got primary votes vs. someone who didn’t even participate in the primaries.
The biggest argument against removing Biden from the ticket against his will is that we went through a bunch of primaries, and he has won enough delegates to be the nominee. For the party that claims to be about protecting democracy, it would be a stretch to tell all those Primary voters “Hey, guess what? Your vote doesn’t really count” so directly.
But, there are contingency plans for a reason. If Biden’s doctors decide he has a sudden case of chronic not-gonna-win-itis that is affecting his health, and he gets a sudden medical diagnosis that forces him from the race (and the Presidency), there are precisely two people who can take over without the Democratic Party totally abandoning the democratic process:
the newly minted 47th President. Kamala Harris. While she did not get any delegates herself, as Biden’s VP she shares the ticket and would take over the Presidency once he backs out.
Dean Phillips , who as far as I know is the only other candidate to get any Primary delegates. No, “uncommitted” doesn’t count.
Nobody else can swoop in and take over, because they have no legitimate relationship to the Biden ticket, or to the primaries.
Lol…
NH got their delegates removed because they keep voting progressive and the DNC declared Biden the winner after like a week.
For a lot of states, Biden was the only option listed
Right.
This all hinges on either Biden or the person he appointed to head the DNC doing the right thing to give us the best shot of stopping trump.
It’s incredibly unlikely, especially if no one speaks up and says Biden hurts our chances of stopping trump.
Biden is the one person in America not doing everything he can to stop trump who has the power to almost guarantee Trump is stopped.
All he has to do is realize at 82 years old, maybe he shouldn’t be committing to 4 years of the most stressful job on the fucking planet.
Yes, the primaries may be a huge joke, but they at least have the veneer of democracy over them. Primaries are formal elections run by each state, so there are laws to follow regarding how delegates are applied.
Here’s what I think now: I’m sure Barack Obama watched that debate, and came to the same conclusion we all did. If anyone has Biden’s ear on this, it’s Obama. Obama needs to get on the phone with Joe, and have a heart-to-heart about how fucking devastating that thing was. He should point out how much damage was done by RBG not retiring when it was her time to do so. I’m sure he had those discussions directly with her in 2015.
(Edited to add: according to the NYT, Obama’s not going there
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/28/us/politics/biden-democrats-nominee-2024-election.html
I still have confidence that Joe can do the job, but not so much that he is electable anymore. I hope I’m wrong, and in November, if he is on the ballot I will still vote for him, and not regret it.
In retrospect, maybe we should have had a Primary debate after all.
We need to every election.
Bernie pulled Biden’s campaign (if nothing else) to the left, which helped Biden in an incredibly close general.
The primary is a chance for party voters to show what they want, and the winning candidate then knows where his bread is buttered.
With no primary, there’s no one to pull Biden left, and he cant afford to lose any votes from 2020.
But this time Biden doesn’t give a fuck what voters say unless they’re saying how great he is. It’s the same sense of entitlement that cost Hillary her election and got trump his first term.
We’re just repeating 2016
Maybe the party needs to adopt bylaws saying that there shall be no fewer than three candidates in any Presidential primary, even for an incumbant. That will take away a bit of the stigma against challenging an incumbent. It would no longer be a direct challenge to the establishment, and more of a party role to fill.
The stigma of primary challenges exists because old guard Dems want everything to run off seniority, because they have the seniority.
And you could kind of make that argument when it was capping out at 30 years experience.
Biden has been in the federal government for about half a century.
When there’s no cap to age, people hang around waiting for their turn, which clogs senior positions and prevents you get generations from getting experience.
It all comes down to old people refusing to step aside for the next generations, and those old people all agreeing that they should hold onto power till they die in office.
They won’t step aside, so for the good of the party, they need to be set aside.
Voters are more important than any party. We don’t need them, they need us.
Yeah the problem I think with the idea they can nominate someone else at the convention are that I believe the delegates are obligated under the first ballot to vote as they were voted. So Biden’s going to win the first ballot. There’s no way not to have that happen. If there were enough other candidates that the first ballad wasn’t enough to reach the threshold then yeah they could all change their votes after. That’s just not the case because nobody ran against Joe Biden. Or nobody worth even the time it would take to spell their name properly here.
Dean Phillips has even less of a claim to the nomination than the people who didn’t run at all considering he was on the ballot and firmly rejected.
There is a zero percent chance that if Biden backs out that Phillips would even be considered.
Seems clear to me that it should be Kamala.
I agree if it happens it should be Kamala, I only bring Dean Phillips up because he actually has a handful of delegates pledged to him. It is less of a stretch to pick someone who campaigned for the job and actually got primary votes vs. someone who didn’t even participate in the primaries.