Looks like this decision is decided already but I figured I’d put in my input. Given this instance has an open registration policy, nothing is stopping someone from another instance to create an alternative just for voting on this instance. This individual might align and contribute positively to the fediverse and have really great ideas and contributions to discussions here. However because they use their alt account here on sh.itjust.works only for voting, their vote might get dismissed due to poor account reputation (another issue that I believe was already brought up in another post). The fediverse is meant to be a decentralized community and by forcing people to need to join this community to vote promotes centralization which I believe is the opposite of what the fediverse is trying to accomplish. I guess for now I’ll hold off on casting my vote until the community determines what criteria should be considered when counting a vote.
I think another big thing to consider is that we need to have a discussion thread first before people can cast their vote. A lot of people in this thread have already voted before hearing any arguments other than the OP, which heavily skews the vote in favor of OP. If we have a discussion thread for a few days first and get all the discussion out of the way we can then have a vote after and people can go back and read all the arguments made before voting.
I could see this being a vulnerability though, there are people out there who would want to game democratic systems - particularly for hot-button issues, from real-life politics to defederating Meta.
Was in the middle of posting the exact same thing when your post came in. Yes, it’s open registration. So even if you make it so only local users can vote… anyone anywhere can instantly make an account here and vote. So there is no reason to enforce this. The reputation thing would just mean that people would have to “farm karma” before their alt can vote and then they just leave the alt sitting for votes. Im not sure you should be doing anything that promotes karma farming…
So if it’s easier to set up the vote with it local only. Do that. If it’s easier to set up by allowing voting for anywhere. Do that. Just do what takes the least effort because at the end of the day there is no way to prevent outside voting.
On the other hand, quite some people still need to grasp all intricacies of federation: we already have quite a few users over from kbin demanding defederation from a third party instance without realising it would not affect them at all.
Of course, it will be easy to sign up just for voting, but at least if you choose to do so, you know what you are doing…
I think that, in general, it almost shouldn’t matter which instance you’re a part of. Ideally that choice doesn’t affect how you view the fediverse. One of the largest reasons I’m against de-federation for anything but the worst offenders is that I think that we need to move away from centrally controlled social media to a more decentralized means of interacting.
I think if I had to design it myself I would ensure that there not any governance decisions that should be made on the instance level. Communities should have rules, instances should have rules about what communities they want to host and the communities should work with the people running the instance to ensure that their software needs are taken care of (maybe they need video hosting, or some software integration into a game or whatever).
Decisions about how to govern communities should be made at the community level and the community leaders should work with the instance administrators to ensure that everything runs correctly. The communities should determine their own means of setting rules. The instance owner is basically just running the hardware, keeping the software updated and ensuring the community moderators have the tools they need.
requiring an account on this instance is not going to stop everyone, and it doesn’t need to. i think this is on par with adding captcha to the account creation. people who are determined to disrupt will still get through, but this minimizes the possibility of low effort trolling.
i agree that voting shouldn’t be tied to account reputation or age. if someone’s going to create an account just to vote here then so be it.
I get what you mean, but if this is the forum for discussing how this instance is run, then I think at the very least, the opinions and views of those with accounts based on this instance should weigh more than those from elsewhere. They have their own instances to take an active role in, and if they find the direct-democracy aspect of sh.itjust.works, they should have their “main” account here. There’s been a long-requested feature to allow account instance migration a la Mastodon style, making such a weighting or restriction more equitable.
Looks like this decision is decided already but I figured I’d put in my input. Given this instance has an open registration policy, nothing is stopping someone from another instance to create an alternative just for voting on this instance. This individual might align and contribute positively to the fediverse and have really great ideas and contributions to discussions here. However because they use their alt account here on sh.itjust.works only for voting, their vote might get dismissed due to poor account reputation (another issue that I believe was already brought up in another post). The fediverse is meant to be a decentralized community and by forcing people to need to join this community to vote promotes centralization which I believe is the opposite of what the fediverse is trying to accomplish. I guess for now I’ll hold off on casting my vote until the community determines what criteria should be considered when counting a vote.
I think another big thing to consider is that we need to have a discussion thread first before people can cast their vote. A lot of people in this thread have already voted before hearing any arguments other than the OP, which heavily skews the vote in favor of OP. If we have a discussion thread for a few days first and get all the discussion out of the way we can then have a vote after and people can go back and read all the arguments made before voting.
I like this idea a lot. I would have voted aye before reading TheDude’s thoughtful (as always) commentary.
If they’re willing to put in the bare minimum of making an account and voting then I think that’s okay.
I could see this being a vulnerability though, there are people out there who would want to game democratic systems - particularly for hot-button issues, from real-life politics to defederating Meta.
Was in the middle of posting the exact same thing when your post came in. Yes, it’s open registration. So even if you make it so only local users can vote… anyone anywhere can instantly make an account here and vote. So there is no reason to enforce this. The reputation thing would just mean that people would have to “farm karma” before their alt can vote and then they just leave the alt sitting for votes. Im not sure you should be doing anything that promotes karma farming…
So if it’s easier to set up the vote with it local only. Do that. If it’s easier to set up by allowing voting for anywhere. Do that. Just do what takes the least effort because at the end of the day there is no way to prevent outside voting.
I voted aye initially but after thinking about it, this makes the most sense.
On the other hand, quite some people still need to grasp all intricacies of federation: we already have quite a few users over from kbin demanding defederation from a third party instance without realising it would not affect them at all.
Of course, it will be easy to sign up just for voting, but at least if you choose to do so, you know what you are doing…
It’s an interesting question.
I think that, in general, it almost shouldn’t matter which instance you’re a part of. Ideally that choice doesn’t affect how you view the fediverse. One of the largest reasons I’m against de-federation for anything but the worst offenders is that I think that we need to move away from centrally controlled social media to a more decentralized means of interacting.
I think if I had to design it myself I would ensure that there not any governance decisions that should be made on the instance level. Communities should have rules, instances should have rules about what communities they want to host and the communities should work with the people running the instance to ensure that their software needs are taken care of (maybe they need video hosting, or some software integration into a game or whatever).
Decisions about how to govern communities should be made at the community level and the community leaders should work with the instance administrators to ensure that everything runs correctly. The communities should determine their own means of setting rules. The instance owner is basically just running the hardware, keeping the software updated and ensuring the community moderators have the tools they need.
requiring an account on this instance is not going to stop everyone, and it doesn’t need to. i think this is on par with adding captcha to the account creation. people who are determined to disrupt will still get through, but this minimizes the possibility of low effort trolling.
i agree that voting shouldn’t be tied to account reputation or age. if someone’s going to create an account just to vote here then so be it.
I get what you mean, but if this is the forum for discussing how this instance is run, then I think at the very least, the opinions and views of those with accounts based on this instance should weigh more than those from elsewhere. They have their own instances to take an active role in, and if they find the direct-democracy aspect of sh.itjust.works, they should have their “main” account here. There’s been a long-requested feature to allow account instance migration a la Mastodon style, making such a weighting or restriction more equitable.
The majority won’t bother though.