And yet they still do pay way more taxes than the average middle-class taxpayer. In France, the top 10% pay 2/3 of the income tax. Effective total tax+contribution rate for the very top 0.001% is still over 36% on taxable income or 26% on “economic income” (their company profits)
So yeah that’s a lot of taxes that go away when those taxpayers leave. The whole “please leave DGAF” spiel surely feels good to say but the reality is that this is shooting yourself in the foot.
This is without even talking about the loss of investment, jobs and consumption.
Because people just don’t sit around doing nothing all day long. Most people tends to want to do something meaningful with their life. If there are work opportunities, they will be taken if the work is meaningful.
If rich people leave the country, it will allow lots of smaller companies to take over the market and pay taxes. They will pay less taxes, but more companies will be able to survive due to the absence of a big company own by a rich person that by design kills small businesses.
You don’t replace an experienced neurosurgeon or a star footballer like that. And even if you find such person, they’ll look at the tax rate and see that they can sell their skill in another country just as well. As for companies, they’ll set up shop abroad and ship the final product across the border.
Unless you run a country with closed borders like North Korea, your economic base and talents will “leak”.
We don’t talk about the same rich people. I talk about rich company owners (top 1% rich), you talk about liberal professions (top 10 to 5%).
For the one you talk about, they could already leave and don’t, so they prefer to stay in a country that taxes them rather than leave. Not everybody wants to leave their homeland even for more money, especially in a country like France with an overall good quality of life. I would say most people don’t.
What is important isn’t the taxe rate, but the fact that, even with high taxe rate these people still manage to have a greater income that most of the population.
Plus more taxes, means more public services, public services that also benefit star footballers (do we even need those?) and neurosurgeons. For instance if there is a better public health care system, everyone (including the rich) won’t have to pay for private health insurance, so they spend less money.
What is important isn’t the taxe rate, but the fact that, even with high taxe rate these people still manage to have a greater income that most of the population.
That’s not how people who studies and works hard to reach incomes in the 100k€'s think. Societies where people are just paid what the government think they need have existed, they all failed because ultimately money DOES motivates people quite a bit.
I talk about rich company owners (top 1% rich)
Those won’t be replaced, they’ll just move across the border (every single country around France has lower taxes) and enjoy lower taxes while still being shareholders of their French business. Except when they need to invest, they’ll likely look around their new host country because that’s where they are.
Studies find happiness stops being related with money at some point (5000€ per month if I remember correctly). Maybe we can stop listening to rich people and just studies about happiness…
I’d say, it all comes to the society we want. Do we want to keep believing that being richer than everyone else is a good way of life or not ? If not giving back money to the community seems a good start…
Past societies failed for a large number of reasons, including money accumulation. What society do you have in mind exactly.
Taxing more rich people is also making them pay for their part in climate change, as they are the biggest contributors to it at an individual level.
Lastly it all comes to do we want or not move away from the liberal capitalism? France is the 7th economic power in the world, it should be able to switch if it wants to. And in the end it isn’t to the rich to decide that, but if they don’t want to be French anymore, they should quit as the bunch of crybabies they are (if you know what I mean :).
Studies find happiness stops being related with money at some point (5000€ per month if I remember correctly). Maybe we can stop listening to rich people and just studies about happiness…
But humans don’t base their entire life on studies, otherwise nobody would ever smoke, drink, go on holidays (dangerous and costly!) or have children (ruinous and time consuming). Societies have to be built based on the reality of humans, not some ideal human. The history of every communist experiment shows that it doesn’t work.
Taxing more rich people is also making them pay for their part in climate change
That’s a moral argument, not an economical or ecological argument. If climate change is what you want to fix, you need a carbon tax, not taxing the rich. (this will end up somewhat taxing the rich too, but as a side-effect)
it should be able to switch if it wants to
Again it’s a moral argument. France is part of the EU, it needs to trade and commerce with the world, it is heavily in debt and relies on foreign investors to pays the bills. You can’t just ignore the world, shut down every border and run your own little economic experiment. This will fail like it always has.
And yet they still do pay way more taxes than the average middle-class taxpayer. In France, the top 10% pay 2/3 of the income tax. Effective total tax+contribution rate for the very top 0.001% is still over 36% on taxable income or 26% on “economic income” (their company profits)
So yeah that’s a lot of taxes that go away when those taxpayers leave. The whole “please leave DGAF” spiel surely feels good to say but the reality is that this is shooting yourself in the foot.
This is without even talking about the loss of investment, jobs and consumption.
If they leave, it will open more work opportunities for others. So more taxes in the end.
Why would anyone take over with the same tax issue? Those jobs will move.
Because people just don’t sit around doing nothing all day long. Most people tends to want to do something meaningful with their life. If there are work opportunities, they will be taken if the work is meaningful.
If rich people leave the country, it will allow lots of smaller companies to take over the market and pay taxes. They will pay less taxes, but more companies will be able to survive due to the absence of a big company own by a rich person that by design kills small businesses.
You don’t replace an experienced neurosurgeon or a star footballer like that. And even if you find such person, they’ll look at the tax rate and see that they can sell their skill in another country just as well. As for companies, they’ll set up shop abroad and ship the final product across the border.
Unless you run a country with closed borders like North Korea, your economic base and talents will “leak”.
We don’t talk about the same rich people. I talk about rich company owners (top 1% rich), you talk about liberal professions (top 10 to 5%).
For the one you talk about, they could already leave and don’t, so they prefer to stay in a country that taxes them rather than leave. Not everybody wants to leave their homeland even for more money, especially in a country like France with an overall good quality of life. I would say most people don’t.
What is important isn’t the taxe rate, but the fact that, even with high taxe rate these people still manage to have a greater income that most of the population.
Plus more taxes, means more public services, public services that also benefit star footballers (do we even need those?) and neurosurgeons. For instance if there is a better public health care system, everyone (including the rich) won’t have to pay for private health insurance, so they spend less money.
That’s not how people who studies and works hard to reach incomes in the 100k€'s think. Societies where people are just paid what the government think they need have existed, they all failed because ultimately money DOES motivates people quite a bit.
Those won’t be replaced, they’ll just move across the border (every single country around France has lower taxes) and enjoy lower taxes while still being shareholders of their French business. Except when they need to invest, they’ll likely look around their new host country because that’s where they are.
Studies find happiness stops being related with money at some point (5000€ per month if I remember correctly). Maybe we can stop listening to rich people and just studies about happiness…
I’d say, it all comes to the society we want. Do we want to keep believing that being richer than everyone else is a good way of life or not ? If not giving back money to the community seems a good start…
Past societies failed for a large number of reasons, including money accumulation. What society do you have in mind exactly.
Taxing more rich people is also making them pay for their part in climate change, as they are the biggest contributors to it at an individual level.
Lastly it all comes to do we want or not move away from the liberal capitalism? France is the 7th economic power in the world, it should be able to switch if it wants to. And in the end it isn’t to the rich to decide that, but if they don’t want to be French anymore, they should quit as the bunch of crybabies they are (if you know what I mean :).
But humans don’t base their entire life on studies, otherwise nobody would ever smoke, drink, go on holidays (dangerous and costly!) or have children (ruinous and time consuming). Societies have to be built based on the reality of humans, not some ideal human. The history of every communist experiment shows that it doesn’t work.
That’s a moral argument, not an economical or ecological argument. If climate change is what you want to fix, you need a carbon tax, not taxing the rich. (this will end up somewhat taxing the rich too, but as a side-effect)
Again it’s a moral argument. France is part of the EU, it needs to trade and commerce with the world, it is heavily in debt and relies on foreign investors to pays the bills. You can’t just ignore the world, shut down every border and run your own little economic experiment. This will fail like it always has.
Removed by mod