I’ve kept chickens. They do not understand the family concept. Roosters will happily rape their siblings or their mothers, and hens will enforce a gruelling pecking order even if it means someone dies of hunger/beatings 😢
I wonder if they would do the same free in the nature. Locked together in tight spaces and restricted freedom will change the behaviour of every creature.
This is the default behaviour for chickens. I can’t think of any chicken like creatures that exists in the wild that resembles. The chickens I kept had plenty of room both inside and outside. Outside was a predator proof fence around a large area with different kinds of vegetation, bushes and wet and dry environments (I also had a couple of mallards). Inside they had running water, things to climb on to roost, and various boxes to lay and sleep in. Every week I cleaned their living quarters and threw down fresh bedding. They were not for food or for egg production. I ate and gave away the eggs they laid.
Edit: to keep the roosters from doing the dirty with close relatives, I swapped rooster with other people that kept poultry as a hobby
yea i do the same with mine, they roam free in the garden during the day and have a protected outdoor and indoor area so its basically a large playground for them and still the behavior you mentioned is what i see as well. also chickens in the wild? the measures i had to take to keep my chickens safe from foxes, martens, cats, dogs… is just crazy, they have zero defense capabilities so i dont know how they survived ubtill we kept them as livestock
Chickens originated from the red jungle fowl which is a much leaner and flighted bird (as are certain breeds of chicken) We’ve made modern chickens into something that can’t survive in the wild, much like we turned wolves into pugs!
i love my chickens, they eat all my scraps and weeds from the garden, fertillize my garden, fresh eggs every day which i trade with neighbors for his surplus veggies or a a batch of waffles. its a nice way to live
So you consider humanity superior in morality to chickens right? Which means that you identify the horrible things they do as horrible, and deem them unacceptable and definitely shouldn’t be repeated by a being of supposed higher intellect and control over one’s own actions beyond simple instincts?
Seems like an even better argument against eating other animals and especially, especially industrialized factory farming if you ask me, where everything you said is still done, but by humans to the chickens.
Even, given the above, the op deemed chickens immoral that does not make all chickens’ actions immoral. Preening, roosting and eating grain are not immoral activities.
Defining only the horrible acts as horrible is a circular argument as no definition has been provided as horrible.
Other than those three, you really stuck it to the carnist, chief.
I would assume that large chicken farms would separate the mother from the chicks long before any family bond could be established. There are a lot of viable concerns about how the animals are handled and treated, but the issue of separating a family is just not one of them.
But what it does do is point out that PETA is full of shit and you shouldn’t listen to the organisation that runs kill shelters becaus they think you shouldn’t have pets.
The fuckers have actually STOLEN PETS and “euthanized” them inside of a day, when the animal was in good health and in a loving home.
I assume that you are vegan and dont contribute to the industrialised mass killing of sentient beings in any way? Otherwise you seem quite hypocritical.
PETA takes any animal. So those no kill shelters that you probably love so much have to get rid of animals and send the animal to the next shelter in the chain. Eventually, that could mean PETA shelters. Guess what that means? The most aggressive animals, the most disabled animals, the most sick animals, the most expensive to take care of animals, and otherwise those least desired by those looking for companion animals, are likely to end up at a PETA shelter. They don’t have the funding, the staff, or the safety protocols in place to deal with the never ending supply that breeding creates. If you don’t want PETA to kill animals, which they don’t want to do, encourage the ban on animal breeding so there are fewer of these cases. Also stop pretending that your local no kill shelter is separate from that process. They just offload the bad press to PETA. Do not buy animals. Rescue & adopt.
Lmao this bullshit again. PETA only euthanizes animals that are suffering and beyond saving. They accept animals that are rejected by those “no-kill” shelters that are more concerned with how their statistics look than helping suffering animals, which sometimes means euthanizing. The whole “PETA hates animals” thing is just another way for people to justify their own behaviour against animals. Do you honestly believe PETA is some kind of evil organisation that’s out to kill animals out of pure spite?
That one whooshed right over your head eh? He’s saying that chickens families are not, in fact, the same as human families. They don’t form a family unit with bonds above those of other chickens. It’s mostly because they’re chickens…and not humans and it was a dumb comparison for PETA to try and make.
Pointing out how chickens relate to other chickens does not mean it’s an endorsement for cruelty…you stretched big time for that one.
Well, either you’re really bad at expressing yourself through online comments…or you forgot to add a /s to the end of your comment. Certainly seems to me like you’re still a bit confused.
I make this practically correct binary because in practice more than 90% of all livestock is kept in inhumane conditions.
The theoretical possibility of an ethical way to raise and slaughter livestock is irrelevant to my argument and in essence a straw man because I don’t argue against a hypothetically well raised and humanely slaughtered livestock but against the fact that in reality livestock is mistreated, tortured and killed in horrible conditions in most of all cases.
If I go to the supermarket and buy meat I am all but guaranteed that the animal has suffered.
If you raise your own livestock out on open field and treat it right I don’t have a problem with you. But you don’t, do you?
And even if you just are a carnivore I don’t have any problem with you, you can live your life how you see fit. I don’t really care.
But if you go to the internet to shit on people that care about animals to feel better about the fact that you don’t, I think you are a dick.
Not saying that applies to you specifically, but I have seen examples in this thread.
Possible.
The majority of people I know in person would disagree I hope.
I agree that I am pretty combative here, but I am also tired of the ever same old and disproven arguments.
I am not even vegan myself, but ridiculing people for trying to save animals is just low imho so I kinda don’t care if I am an asshole to people that do it.
Unfortunately yes, I don’t like that, that’s abuse, but I’m not against murdering and eating things. I support stopping cruelty towards animals whilst they’re alive.
I’ve kept chickens. They do not understand the family concept. Roosters will happily rape their siblings or their mothers, and hens will enforce a gruelling pecking order even if it means someone dies of hunger/beatings 😢
I wonder if they would do the same free in the nature. Locked together in tight spaces and restricted freedom will change the behaviour of every creature.
This is the default behaviour for chickens. I can’t think of any chicken like creatures that exists in the wild that resembles. The chickens I kept had plenty of room both inside and outside. Outside was a predator proof fence around a large area with different kinds of vegetation, bushes and wet and dry environments (I also had a couple of mallards). Inside they had running water, things to climb on to roost, and various boxes to lay and sleep in. Every week I cleaned their living quarters and threw down fresh bedding. They were not for food or for egg production. I ate and gave away the eggs they laid.
Edit: to keep the roosters from doing the dirty with close relatives, I swapped rooster with other people that kept poultry as a hobby
yea i do the same with mine, they roam free in the garden during the day and have a protected outdoor and indoor area so its basically a large playground for them and still the behavior you mentioned is what i see as well. also chickens in the wild? the measures i had to take to keep my chickens safe from foxes, martens, cats, dogs… is just crazy, they have zero defense capabilities so i dont know how they survived ubtill we kept them as livestock
Chickens originated from the red jungle fowl which is a much leaner and flighted bird (as are certain breeds of chicken) We’ve made modern chickens into something that can’t survive in the wild, much like we turned wolves into pugs!
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This all reminds me I miss having chickens and ducks. One of the bad sides living in a big city for work, I guess
i love my chickens, they eat all my scraps and weeds from the garden, fertillize my garden, fresh eggs every day which i trade with neighbors for his surplus veggies or a a batch of waffles. its a nice way to live
Red junglefowl are undomesticated chickens.
And are far enough removed genetically that they can’t interbreed.
Ever heard of domestication?
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Chickens are a truly enlightened people
PETA does often miss the mark on the way they try to make a point.
PETA bad amirite?
More like frequently insufferable.
Yep. I’ve seen hens scalp their own chicks because they were a different colour from the others.
So you consider humanity superior in morality to chickens right? Which means that you identify the horrible things they do as horrible, and deem them unacceptable and definitely shouldn’t be repeated by a being of supposed higher intellect and control over one’s own actions beyond simple instincts?
Seems like an even better argument against eating other animals and especially, especially industrialized factory farming if you ask me, where everything you said is still done, but by humans to the chickens.
Big logical gaps in this argument:
The op never said they were superior morally.
Even, given the above, the op deemed chickens immoral that does not make all chickens’ actions immoral. Preening, roosting and eating grain are not immoral activities.
Defining only the horrible acts as horrible is a circular argument as no definition has been provided as horrible.
Other than those three, you really stuck it to the carnist, chief.
I would assume that large chicken farms would separate the mother from the chicks long before any family bond could be established. There are a lot of viable concerns about how the animals are handled and treated, but the issue of separating a family is just not one of them.
Peta is Peta’ing yet another subject.
And that makes it okay for humans to abuse them in even more brutal ways?
Or what are you saying?
Wow, no.
But what it does do is point out that PETA is full of shit and you shouldn’t listen to the organisation that runs kill shelters becaus they think you shouldn’t have pets.
The fuckers have actually STOLEN PETS and “euthanized” them inside of a day, when the animal was in good health and in a loving home.
FUCK PETA, they are a bunch of animal killers.
It is indeed a well known fact that PETA kills animals
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/peta-taking-pets/
PETA does not kill animals because they’re against pet ownership. PETA administers euthanasia services for shelters that are over capacity.
I assume that you are vegan and dont contribute to the industrialised mass killing of sentient beings in any way? Otherwise you seem quite hypocritical.
For a group of people saying thay they are for the ethical treatment of animals, they kill a whole lot of them unnecessarily.
PETA takes any animal. So those no kill shelters that you probably love so much have to get rid of animals and send the animal to the next shelter in the chain. Eventually, that could mean PETA shelters. Guess what that means? The most aggressive animals, the most disabled animals, the most sick animals, the most expensive to take care of animals, and otherwise those least desired by those looking for companion animals, are likely to end up at a PETA shelter. They don’t have the funding, the staff, or the safety protocols in place to deal with the never ending supply that breeding creates. If you don’t want PETA to kill animals, which they don’t want to do, encourage the ban on animal breeding so there are fewer of these cases. Also stop pretending that your local no kill shelter is separate from that process. They just offload the bad press to PETA. Do not buy animals. Rescue & adopt.
And I have mentioned PETA when or how?
You were commenting on someone’s rebuttal to PETA.
Fuck the context I wanna be MAD!
Lmao this bullshit again. PETA only euthanizes animals that are suffering and beyond saving. They accept animals that are rejected by those “no-kill” shelters that are more concerned with how their statistics look than helping suffering animals, which sometimes means euthanizing. The whole “PETA hates animals” thing is just another way for people to justify their own behaviour against animals. Do you honestly believe PETA is some kind of evil organisation that’s out to kill animals out of pure spite?
Edit: see here
This person is 100% correct. I’m not a fan of PETA, but think before you downvote.
That one whooshed right over your head eh? He’s saying that chickens families are not, in fact, the same as human families. They don’t form a family unit with bonds above those of other chickens. It’s mostly because they’re chickens…and not humans and it was a dumb comparison for PETA to try and make.
Pointing out how chickens relate to other chickens does not mean it’s an endorsement for cruelty…you stretched big time for that one.
I really really want you to explain to me how in your head what I wrote made you think I didn’t get this absolutely obvious thing that OP stated lol.
Well, either you’re really bad at expressing yourself through online comments…or you forgot to add a /s to the end of your comment. Certainly seems to me like you’re still a bit confused.
So, do you think that there are ethical and non abusive animal husbandry methods for raising livestick?
Do you think there are ethical ways to slaughter livestock?
You seem to be making this a false binary.
I make this practically correct binary because in practice more than 90% of all livestock is kept in inhumane conditions.
The theoretical possibility of an ethical way to raise and slaughter livestock is irrelevant to my argument and in essence a straw man because I don’t argue against a hypothetically well raised and humanely slaughtered livestock but against the fact that in reality livestock is mistreated, tortured and killed in horrible conditions in most of all cases.
If I go to the supermarket and buy meat I am all but guaranteed that the animal has suffered.
If you raise your own livestock out on open field and treat it right I don’t have a problem with you. But you don’t, do you?
And even if you just are a carnivore I don’t have any problem with you, you can live your life how you see fit. I don’t really care.
But if you go to the internet to shit on people that care about animals to feel better about the fact that you don’t, I think you are a dick.
Not saying that applies to you specifically, but I have seen examples in this thread.
I might be a dick. But you sir/madam/xir or whatever, are an asshole.
Possible.
The majority of people I know in person would disagree I hope.
I agree that I am pretty combative here, but I am also tired of the ever same old and disproven arguments. I am not even vegan myself, but ridiculing people for trying to save animals is just low imho so I kinda don’t care if I am an asshole to people that do it.
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Abuse? No. But kill and make tasty? Absolutely.
Have you seen videos of how chickens are kept?
Unfortunately yes, I don’t like that, that’s abuse, but I’m not against murdering and eating things. I support stopping cruelty towards animals whilst they’re alive.
You know what, I am totally cool with that.
Like dumb lizards jammed into a murder box? I know a farmer that uses them to generate all of the liming agent he needs for his fields.
How does that work. The egg shells? Do you mean fertiliser maybe, chicken manure is basically guano so it’s incredible for that.
Also egg shells are good fertilizer as well.
Have you seen what happens to the human body without meat?