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ADHD manifests differently in girls and they’re usually able to mask it more.
I’m not sure to what extent it’s actually manifesting differently or being masked better than institutional bias against the idea of women having ADHD - diagnoses are about 3x more rare for women…
If I’ve understood what I’ve read over the years correctly, a large percentage of girls with it get diagnosed bipolar, completely missing the underlying ADHD cause of the depression/anxiety. This can turn into an absolute horrid experience as they get prescribed strong drugs that can really mess you up if you don’t need them, and they most likely don’t.
I think it is at least in part due to it manifesting differently. This is slightly different because it pertains to autism, but a while back I read about how one of the theories of why autism seems to be lower prevalence is girls is because the social norms of girls/boys are different. For example, young boys tend to socialise with team sports, which can be highly reliant on non-verbal communication. In contrast, because neurotypical girls are (implicitly and explicitly) taught to take on caring roles, an autistic girl is more likely to be “taken under the wing” of a neurotypical girl, providing more opportunities to develop social skills via social mimicry.
I’m just one autistic woman, but this certainly scanned with my lived experience. As a result of this, I wasn’t diagnosed until my teens, after a full on mental breakdown led to a psych eval.
I agree with you that institutional bias plays a huge role: I had a partner who had ADHD and was diagnosed quite young. When we discussed our experiences of the early years of school, I was struck by how similar our experiences were in terms of our behaviour, but how he was read as being a naughty boy (which is what led to his much earlier diagnosis) whereas my distractibility and fidgeting was seen as either me being unstimulated in class, or anxious. I think I’d have probably been diagnosed way sooner if I were a boy acting as I did.
But what’s really interesting to speculate on is the way that my behaviour and understanding of my self changed over the years, as a result of that institutional bias. I think that there’s a self reinforcing cycle at play, where an institutional bias leads to women and girls with ADHD (and/or autism) developing a particular set of masking skills that makes them further illegible to the systems that dispense diagnoses (which then reinforces said institutional bias).
That being said, I’ve noticed a lot of progress in recent years on this front, especially in the community. My friend is a high school teacher who almost certainly has ADHD but is on the very long waitlist for an actual diagnosis. Despite not having a diagnosis, understanding herself better has helped her to cope better in her life, and through community and solidarity, feels that she is better equipped to understand and support neurodivergent students in her classroom. People like my friend are one of the ways that the reinforcing cycle of institutional bias, even if progress on that front is slow.
It can manifest itself in the same way for men but it is usually then never discovered untill maybe much late in life when you have someone with depression and anxiety coming to the doctor’s who may also miss the fact that it could be ADHD
Literally me
Tried a bunch of anxiety meds that didn’t work, tried some antidepressants that didn’t work, got a different doctor and they were like “I think you might have ADHD”.
8 months later got an appointment and talked to the doc for an hour and got a new prescription for ADHD meds, and my life has massively improved since.
NGL I think getting that diagnosis may have been one of the best things to have happened in my life. I just wish I didn’t have to wait I til I was 29 to get it.
You just described my situation almost exactly. Huge life changer for me to get medication. My mood is so much better and my confidence in myself at work is better than ever. I can finally trust myself and my skills and push complex projects like never before because the depressive anxiety and constant stream og garbage noisy adhd thoughts isn’t holding me back anymore. I track my mood on an app every single day from 0-6 and you can se on the graph exact what day i started the medication because it went from the average hovering around 3 to now hovering around 5 which is just such a good feeling. Best of luck to you and I’m happy to hear you found help as well.
Edit, the app i use to track my mood is called daylio and works pretty good. Giving me good insight on my own mental health.
I’m really happy for you. Big props to the doc who suggested it as a possibility, and for you for persevering long enough to get the diagnosis — it is unfair that you had to struggle for so long, but I am glad that you are now afforded the opportunity to learn how to work with your brain, rather than against it.
What domain of your life did ADHD meds most help with?
Yeah it was a struggle for sure, especially when I found out from my parents that they didn’t think it was real and that my teachers had told them for years to get me evaluated.
The biggest impact is honestly hard to put my finger on because of the massive impact it’s had on my life overall.
I suddenly found myself with time. I no longer had to get up for work at 8am to make it to work by 1pm and was still barely making it some days.
I’m more consistent about things in almost every aspect of my life. I still have my rotating rogues gallery of hobbies but that keeps them fresh for me.
My PTSD is so much easier to deal with that it’s mind blowing. Though my brain will still serve me up a heaping pile of memories sometimes it’s easier to focus on the task at hand rather than just spiral into a pit.
My relationships have improved. My friends have been able to make plans with me and I’ve been making plans as well and it’s not even that stressful. It was at first because I was so afraid of ruining it but as my confidence grew it quickly paid off.
Shit I even got a promotion at work lol
Honestly it’s gone so well overall that it blows my mind.
Raises hand
Able to, forced to, I mean what’s the difference amirite? This coming from a dude who has often felt like people treat me worse for it but has seen just how nasty people can get with women for the same thing.
IMO everyone is forced to, but some are able to do it while others can’t, no matter how hard they try. I’m definitely in the second category.
My analogy that I like to use for this is being able to fit in a box that society has produced for you. Most people can fit in the box and I spent years attempting to fit myself into it. I contorted myself into painful shapes in a desperate attempt to please the world and even when I thought I was doing it right, it was never enough. Properly acknowledging that I will never fit in that box was immensely liberating in the long run.
Sometimes I see people who can fit in the box, but not comfortably, and I experience a mix of pity, and relief. I reflect on how grim my life would’ve been if I had been successful in carving myself into a shape that would fit what had been demanded of me — just because someone can fit in doesn’t mean that that’s good for them. Certainly, it denies one the ability to grow if you’ve already had to cut off parts of yourself to be palatable to the world.
In this light, I feel an odd sense of privilege for having found myself in the people who can’t blend in, despite trying. “Privilege” is definitely the wrong word for this, but I struggle to articulate it otherwise. I think mostly, I’m just glad to finally be free of wasting what little energy I have trying. Even if it changes little in how the world regards me, I’m just glad to no longer think of myself as a broken neurotypical. I don’t know what it means to be a functioning neurodivergent person, but I’m sort of excited to be a part of building that, alongside people like you and many others on this thread and this site.
I completely agree with that perspective.
Personally I would add to this that for individuals who are unable to mask, and who’s struggle to mask is so to speak, “visible” to others, while they are still subjected to all of the ableiem that comes with being neurodivergent, it’s almost like their inability to mask becomes a punchline for neurotypicals. I think some NTs use the joke as a way of trying to relieve the pressure to mask thinking they’re being accommodating, while still addressing the disabled elephant in the room. The end result is that the person’s lack of masking capacity is mistakenly correlated to their entire set of abilities - people assume they’re incapable of everything. It’s pretty dehumanising and infantalizing, and puts so many limitations on the opportunities available for folk who can’t mask.
And on the other side of that coin, people who have the ability to mask really well are expected to do it flawlessly 24/7, and failing to do so isn’t a sign that having ADHD can be disabling, no, for people who can mask, not masking 24/7 is apparently a moral failing. Which is not the kind of social expectation you want on someone who’s condition predisposes them to anxiety inducing perfectionism, and leads to this expectation also being internalised.
Which occurs for both types of people - internalising the expectations. if society treats you as useless, you start to feel useless, until you fall into a pit. if society expects you to always be performing at 110%, you begin to feel like a failure if you output anything less than 109% until you burn out and fall in the same pit.
(because I don’t think neurotypical people realise that masking is operating at >100%, it’s an additional request on our mind and body, it’s an additional labour, it’s not sustainable long term. There really is the misconception that we can choose to turn it on and off at no personal cost to us.)
Same with autism. Learned when my son was diagnosed.
Same here my son got diagnosed with adhd and all the symptoms matched me too… hmm… weird huh.
Lol same. Son got diagnosed with ADHD so I go “I swear a lot of this he gets from me”.
“But it’s becoming more common!”
No it’s not. It’s being diagnosed better and earlier.
The great news is that after being diagnosed I was able to go on Focalin, then Vyvanse and it’s really helping.
I’m glad you found what works for you!
No
I hate it when people say “[person] is ADHD”. A person is not a disease. If someone has cancer, do you say “my aunt is cancer”? Weird and insulting.
From the autistic side of things, a lot of us dislike “has autism” or “person with autism” because it implies there’s a hidden, non-autistic person underneath the autism. Not everyone feels this way of course, but for people that do they may transfer that way of speaking onto other things like ADHD as well.
I completely agree. I don’t have autism, it’s not a disease, it’s part of who I am like my ethnicity. I am so fucking tired of having to conform to what neurotypicals think I should be.
“Mrs Jones, I’m afraid your son has Black. Luckily, we caught it early, so with speech therapy, skin-bleaching treatments, and facial reconstruction surgery, he can lead a normal life.”
Is it contagious?
“Yes. If any of your son’s friends are using slang words or phrases like Rizz, No Cap, Slay, Woke, Hip, Hipster, Ate, Based, Basic, Bet, Extra, Gyatt, or Tea, they could have caught Black.”
/uj American culture is literally 80% stolen from black people. If white supremacists want to talk “replacement theory”, culturally it already happened. And that’s a good thing, because the manufactured “white” racial identity that came out of pretending all Europeans were the same ethnicity sucked. European Americans forgot who they were, deliberately replacing it with bland oppression. And bland oppression could not stick around in the face of black innovations like jazz, hip-hop, and rock. It had no substance. White Americans need to stop suppressing black artists and stop taking credit for their inventions. The future is diverse and it cannot be stopped. The only thing white supremacists can do is hurt people in the here and now.
Thank you! I’ve always struggled with when to use person first language and when not to. This is the first time I’ve seen it explained in a way that makes sense to me.
The whole “person with autism is better because it puts the person first” sounds exactly like the kind of BS that autism can lower patience for, anyways.
it’s just a linguistic quirk, english just so happens to put adjectives first (i.e. “autistic person” instead of “person autistic”)
The choice is more between ‘Sally has autism’ (some people think this makes it sound more like a disease, more distancing and separate from the person), and ‘Sally is autistic’ (sounds more like a character/personality trait, a way of being).
I think that there are some groups of people who prefer person-first language. For example, “person with epilepsy” is generally preferred to “epilectic person” (n.b. I do not have epilepsy). I also just looked into the history of person-first language and apparently it first arose in the context of people with AIDS, who were sick of being referred to as “AIDS victims” or similar.
In that light, I can understand why some people prefer person-first language. Myself, I am in accord with the general autistic community in calling myself autistic (as an adjective). Occasionally, amongst friends and kin, I may even call myself “an autistic”.
There are others on this wider thread that capture some of my reasons why: I remember, shortly after I was diagnosed, I pondered whether I would take a cure for autism, if one existed. I concluded that I wouldn’t — not because being autistic was a strictly positive thing for me (it certainly made my life harder in many respects), but because I didn’t think that it would be possible to extricate the autism from what is intrinsically me — in short, any “cure” might as well be death.
although this hits kinda different when you’re also depressed enough you wouldn’t mind disappearing
Since ADHD is also a neurodevelopmental condition, it’s less ‘transfer’ and more just the same notion for a different condition.
Otherwise, yeah, this. I’m ADHD because it is a part of me. I can take medicines to help it, but it is the way I am.
Interesting, thanks for sharing a different view on this. I can understand that. For ADHD it’s the same of course, you can’t separate your personality from it. A question like “Would you like to have not had ADHD/autism?” makes no sense, because then we would have been entirely different people.
I’ve never heard someone say “I am autism” or “[person] is autism” though, like people seem to do with ADHD. In the case of autism, what would you use instead of people-first language?
For autism you’d just say someone is autistic/I’m autistic, I think people just say he’s ADHD/I’m ADHD because I’m not sure there’s a comparable way to adjective-ify ADHD like there is with autism/autistic.
In Dutch, we do: we call someone an ADHDer. I’m not opposed to that, I call myself that occasionally. It’s just the “watersnipje is ADHD” phrasing that really rubs me the wrong way, it’s like sand in my teeth every time I read that.
That’s super interesting, thanks for sharing. Sometimes my friends use the phrase “AuDHDer” (autistic person who also has ADHD) or “ADHDer”.
I agree with you about the phrasing in the post being weird. Do you find that it feels different if it’s said by someone who has ADHD, potentially towards other neurodivergent folk? I ask because whilst I don’t think I really use phrasing “I am ADHD”/“She is ADHD”, I do know that the way I speak about neurodivergence is different when I am amongst other people who are neurodivergent.
Hm, I’m not sure. Lots of people have ADHD, so it’s not that often. I’m not “out” as having ADHD at work, and I think there, I’m more inclined to say “person with ADHD” than “ADHDer”.
ADHD isn’t a disease…
You made an even worse error with that, IMO. I agree with what you’re trying to say, but you failed horribly at doing so.
Kill her kid, all ADHD gone.
“I’m so OCD”. You ARE obsessive compulsive disorder?
Yeah, you don’t say “I am diabetes/cancer/leprosy”.
I’ve personally only seen that used by dumbasses who just liked to keep their stuff organized and who had no idea what a devastating condition real OCD can be.
No but you do say “I’m diabetic” which uses diabetes as sort of identity within the sentence structure.
Similarly “I’m a cancer survivor” and “I’m a cancer patient” are ways someone with cancer could structure a sentence to give weight to the way cancer and the experiences of cancer fundamentally change this person’s personality and identity.
While “I am ADHD” isn’t perfect, it’s a very new use of language to try and create an identity form, and it will continue to evolve and sound more natural.
Personally I still find myself saying “I’m autistic and I have ADHD” in most situations, but if I know I won’t have to explain the term too much, I do prefer “I’m AuDHD”, because it’s an identity first phrase, and it feels as natural as “I’m autistic” or “I’m diabetic”.
But the difference grammatically between “I’m autistic” and “I’m ADHD” is minimal, yet I agree one sounds fine and the other just sounds stupid. And other than exposure, I can’t place my finger on why.
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Funny how this works but yet I got diagnosed as an adult THEN my brother got diagnosed haha. We do everything backwards.
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how can someone be an adhd
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If parents are declaring one child as diagnosed but not another it’s because they went to health professionals and respected their diagnoses. Your attitude is gross, toxic, and harmful.
That’s a lot of assumptions there bud
That’s my point. Assuming a diagnosis of mental conditions based on casual social observations is a super fucked up thing to do.
It’s not “super fucked up”. Suspecting it based on behaviors is the first step to diagnosis, what are you smoking
I prefer Northern Lights when availability and price permit, otherwise some Blue Diesel related strains are my go-to.
I don’t think the person in the OP is necessarily assuming diagnoses. I agree with you that arm-chair diagnosing based on little information is generally a bad thing to be doing. However, there is a disproportionate number of girls and women with undiagnosed/late diagnosed ADHD. People (understandably) put a lot of weight on official diagnoses, but also, institutional bias exists (though has been improving on this front, in recent years)
This isn’t about trusting or distrusting the assessment of doctors. If the daughter in the tweet had been assessed for ADHD and was deemed ineligible for a diagnosis, then I might be more in agreement with your comment. However, the crucial step before being sent for an assessment for ADHD is often an informal one: teachers, family or friends commenting on a child’s behaviours and saying “you should get him/her assessed for ADHD”. Institutional bias is one thing, but sociocultural bias is insidious and hard to challenge. That’s why in my opinion, the person in the OP is doing a positive thing, because the daughter might not have been assessed for ADHD, and if no-one says “have you considered she might have ADHD?”, it’ll stay that way for many years.
I apologise for the wall of text. My intention isn’t to just talk at you, I am genuinely interested to hear your opinions on what I have said, especially if you find some parts of my comment more disagreeable than others.
Not to mention that neurodivergence in girls and women is severely underdiagnosed due to differences In manifestation combined with hegemonic standardizations and diagnostic norms.
Female-bodied people show different symptoms and may be more commonly dismissed as “quirky behavior”.
So your assumptions that one is tested and the other wasn’t may, in fact, be just as “gross and harmful” as this user accuses someone else to be.
When I was 8, my 4 year old brother, 40 year old father, and 35 year old uncle whom I lived with all went to get screened for autism after my brother’s pre-school recommended it.
3/4 of us walked out with autism diagnoses.
I was given the official psychiatric assessment that I had “learned and developed autistic traits and mannerisms due to growing up in a household with no neurotypical influence” and the advice was that I would grow out of it once I made enough “normal” friends at school.
My brother started occupational therapy and other programs, and at each one, the practitioner would recommend to my dad that I join too to “help her brother feel safe and comfortable” and I would litteraly participate in the Autism therapy programs with my autistic brother.
Over my years at school, I picked up official diagnoses for dyscalculia and dyspraxia and that explained a few of the struggles I was having. The autism OT I was already doing covered support for my learning disabilities so nothing except the paperwork changed.
And sure enough, I made neurotypical friends at school, and a lot of the autistic-like traits I exhibited as a kid were no longer apparent in my behaviour.
I had a lot of mental health issues as a teenager and young adult. But what millennial isn’t depressed and anxious? I was growing up with 3 autistic men as a teenage girl, I rationalised that my dysfunctional emotional state was justified by my life circumstances. I was a dramatic teen.
Hearing and visual impairment, and other physical health issues with muscle tone, and struggles to heal due to poor proprioception that got worse in my 30s somehow lead to a re-assesment for autism as an adult.
Big fucking suprise. I’m autistic. Always have been.
Sometimes health professionals don’t get the full picture. They’re human.
My presentation is drastically different from my male family members, and I was parentified by my fathers autism from a young age - I remember being as young as 10 and my dad saw my ability to blend and socialise, he’d send me into stores or get me to make phone calls for him if he was having anxiety over it. This was not something that was discussed at the time of my first assessment.
My special interest was, and still is, anthropology. I maintain that loving the study of humanity and human culture means I’ve been able to intellectualise my way through social situations that neurotypicals feel their way through on instinct. I suspect I’ve done this from a young age, and that this further muddied the waters for that psychiatrist who assessed me when I was 12.
If I’d gotten reassessed in my later teens, or early 20s, I’m certain the result of the assessment would have been different then to, even with the same psychiatrist. You get 4 hours with a perfect stranger,just on some random day, and they’re supposed to make an assessment on your entire life?
We trusted their assessment, which is why I fumbled through life for 20+ years under the assumption I could learn my way out of feeling autistic.
Trust your healthcare professionals, but remember that they’re human, and second opinions are important, especially if you’re struggling with the treatment plan, or lack thereof, from the first doctor.
