Kratom, known for its opioid- and stimulant-like effects, is sold widely and legally. But it can be fatal in very high doses.
  • Kratom, sometimes referred to as “gas station heroin,” is an herb with opioid- and stimulant-like effects.
  • It can be fatal in very high doses but is not subject to much federal regulation.
  • So states and cities have been banning kratom sales or enacting rules and restrictions.
  • WeirdGoesPro@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    604·
    3 months ago

    Has anyone here done Kratom? It’s a very light intoxicant, and when you take a little too much, you puke it up quickly and efficiently. I’m sure it’s possible to OD if you have an iron stomach, but unlike heroin (which I also have personal experience with) where a few CC’s on the needle is the difference between life and death, it takes a stupendous amount of Kratom to get even remotely close to the danger zone.

    These laws restricting Kratom seem like they are designed to steer people towards pills more than enhancing public safety. Boo.

    • clif@lemmy.world
      381·
      3 months ago

      When it got banned in my area the “expert” witness supporting the ban was someone who owned a pain management clinic that primarily prescribed pills.

      … No conflict there, no siree.

    • BarrelAgedBoredom@lemm.ee
      263·
      3 months ago

      Yeah kratom has been catching shit for at least a decade. Despite the fact that it’s safer than alcohol and has been shown to be effective in helping opiate addicts recover. Pharma companies can’t make money off it so obviously it should be illegal

        • LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net
          14·
          3 months ago

          It can’t be patented because they didn’t invent it. So while they could sell it, it’s much less profitable. One of many perverse incentives that exist in our insane IP system.

        • BarrelAgedBoredom@lemm.ee
          3·
          3 months ago

          Wish I could tell you. They didn’t do it with pot either despite it having plenty of medicinal applications. Maybe they perceive it as more of a threat than a money making opportunity? It’s less addictive than other opiates (from what I understand) and we know that addiction was part of their business model with opiates . It helps people recover from addiction in a way that doesn’t require life-long treatment so maybe it would be a net-negative in their eyes. Idk I just woke up and I’m rambling lol

    • Postmortal_Pop@lemmy.world
      14·
      3 months ago

      Kratom also has a long history of being used to treat withdraw from opiates which led to several Southeast Asia countries trying to exterminate it because the government was invested in the heroin and opium trades.

      The US would be all about that.

    • Waveform@lemmy.world
      10·
      3 months ago

      I’ve taken it for years with no issue except constipation from time to time. Kratom is about as impactful to me as an acetaminophen pill and a couple cups of coffee, which is good since I have to be careful about which substances I put into my body. I take one teaspoon infrequently. The key to taking it is to not take too much. Less=more, since higher dosages start having an inverse effect.

      Articles like this one only seem to be creating hysteria where none should exist. We need more proper studies on the plant, but for now people should treat it like anything else: don’t overdo it. I mean, you wouldn’t take 15 acetaminophen tablets, and likewise you shouldn’t take dozens of grams of kratom at once.

      Disclaimer: some people can’t keep their dosages low and they will develop a problem, so be careful with the stuff (or don’t even try it if you are worried about becoming addicted).

      • borari@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        3·
        3 months ago

        Thank you for that disclaimer. I had to babysit a friend while they went through an accelerated detox for kratom, it was ugly. I’ve babysat friends detoxing off heroin so I thought this would be ezpz, but it was honestly just as shitty a time as heroin detox. This was someone who had increased consumption to about 2-3 heaping teaspoons at least twice a day over 8 years or so.

        Edit - After reading some of the other comments i want to clarify that I have no concern about overdose deaths from kratom whatsoever. My only concern is that I’ve seen multiple people get absolutely addicted to kratom, and the fact that anyone, of any age, can walk in to basically any store and buy this stuff with no idea of the addictive potential of it is concerning to me. I’d personally probably be happy with a ban on sale to minors and mandated harm reduction material printed on the packaging.

        • Waveform@lemmy.world
          3·
          3 months ago

          It’s odd how some people experience withdrawals and others don’t. I’ve gone cold turkey several times and didn’t have a bad time at all. Maybe a runny nose and some sleepiness, and that’s it.

          I agree it should not be sold to minors and that it should include harm-reduction info. We do it for alcohol and tobacco, after all.

          • borari@lemmy.dbzer0.com
            3·
            3 months ago

            Based on your original comment, I think a lot of it had to do with the volume of daily usage, not just daily usage in and of itself.

            • Waveform@lemmy.world
              1·
              3 months ago

              I should have mentioned my previous usage. At at one point I was using up to three level teapoons a day, which would amount to about 7 & 1/2 gpd. I didn’t do that for very long, as I wasn’t in extreme physical pain.

    • eldoom@lemmy.ml
      4·
      3 months ago

      I use kratom very semi regularly. It’s like a miracle cure for back and joint pain for me. Threshold doses completely turn off pain in 30 minutes.

      I’ve noticed that kratom in particular makes me absolutely wreck while playing videogames. Makes me turn into a calm, cold, and collected machine.

      I don’t really see any addiction potential with the powdered leaf as doses are measured in grams and taking that much of any plant material just destroys your stomach. Extracts though are a totally different animal. They’re completely unregulated and there’s almost no indication of what’s actually in them. I’ve had a brand that totally does not even feel like kratom…

      They all taste like complete ass, even the capsules. Like kinda a green tea type flavor but absolutely terrible. And the burps you get after… There’s also a high chance of getting the opioid itch which sucks.

      I used to take kratom all the time but people started telling me I was acting very strange. I didn’t feel like I was acting strange though… So now I only take it for pain. Which it’s actually quite incredible for.

    • CobblerScholar@lemmy.world
      3·
      3 months ago

      I’ve tried it, not for me personally I like Kava more but yeah it’s a super mild mellow effect barely more intoxicating than coffee. I’d love to see the product more regulated than it is but it certainly doesn’t warrant the direct comparison to opiods or heroin

  • JoeBigelow@lemmy.ca
    36·
    3 months ago

    “Gas Station Heroin” is tianeptine, which absolutely is s dangerous and incredibly addictive. Conflating that term with Kratom is foolish, it is mildly addictive but not super easy to get addicted to unless you like the taste of powdered ass coating your mouth multiple times a day. Tianeptine comes as easy to consume capsules with a much stronger high for your dollar. Yes Kratom comes in capsules but you’ll ditch them long before you’re truly addicted. I don’t think any psychoactive substance should be sold in gas stations, I think it’s where underage kids got the Juuls that got flavors banned and put in disposables instead. Headshops are the places that should be selling legal highs

    • Todd Bonzalez@lemm.ee
      10·
      3 months ago

      Yeah, I was about to say, they are repeatedly getting the street name of these drugs wrong. The headline makes it sound like it’s about Zazas.

    • OlinOfTheHillPeople@lemmy.world
      2·
      3 months ago

      I’ve always known it as something that addicts use to try getting clean. I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone who regularly uses it recreationally.

      • JoeBigelow@lemmy.ca
        2·
        3 months ago

        Kratom? I use it recreationally, never been an opioid addict but I am an alcoholic and it’s a really nice way to relax at the end of a stressful day without drinking. It’s definitely addictive, but I find it so difficult to stomach enough doses frequently enough to really feel any withdrawal when I run out. I have heard from people that do manage to get fully addicted that withdrawal is 1000x worse than normal junk, but that’s anecdotal.

  • HelixDab2@lemm.ee
    21·
    3 months ago

    91 national OD deaths in a year, in a country of 330M, seems… Pretty okay. That’s really not significant. “Implicated in” deaths simply isn’t the same thing at all.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
      114·
      3 months ago

      Maybe not a lot of ODs, but it is addictive and bad for your health long-term.

      And yes, I would say the same about cigarettes. Make doctors prescribe them and taper people down slowly in conjunction with pharmaceutical help to get them to quit.

      • clif@lemmy.world
        91·
        3 months ago

        Is it addictive? Like, physically addictive or “that was nice, I’d like to do it again” addictive? I’ve known people who used it daily for months and quit with no reported problems, side effects, withdrawals, etc. Of course, my sample size is 3 so this is anecdotal.

      • HelixDab2@lemm.ee
        5·
        3 months ago

        I don’t think that, given the current evidence we have, that we can reasonably put them even close to cigarettes in terms of long-term health consequences. “Addictive”, by itself, doesn’t seem like a strong reason to ban or even put particularly significant regulations in place.

        Given the scope and scale of opiate deaths in the US, I don’t think that it’s even realistic to say that it’s even close to as bad as any opiate or opioid. Overall, I’d say that we’re wasting valuable resources in any attempts to regulate it, things that could be better spent one opiate/opioid addiction mitigation. It would be nice if we didn’t have limited resources, but we do, and we shouldn’t be putting attention on minor-league stuff when we have much, much bigger problems.

  • cheese_greater@lemmy.world
    181·
    3 months ago

    I love how the line is always people don’t know what it is or they are putting in their body…

    Ok so what’s the solution?

    Fucking bannit!!! No educating, no harm reduction or offering better, safer drugs we understand better.

    Nope, take away their toys!

    Its the ultimate violation of Chesterton’s Fence. Tear it down, don’t replace it, nothing to see here, plebs