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  • givesomefucks@lemmy.worldEnglish
    611·
    2 months ago

    When people say they want the only valid option to not support genocide:

    Still vote for pro genocide anyways

    Isn’t as effective as you think it may be

    I’m voting for Harris (even tho she has zero chance in my state)

    But comments like yours are making voters feel disenfranchised meaning they’re less likely to vote.

    And the only reason I took the time to write that, is I think you’re genuinely trying to help Kamala, what you’re doing is just the opposite.

    Something better would be:

    The only chance to stop it is to vote Kamala and keep up pressure the next four years.

    That would be productive.

    That would help her retain voters on the left despite her many recent policy moves that are chasing them away.

    You have no choice, so stop caring

    Doesn’t work on progressives, they have a larger prefrontal cortex which is where empathy and critical thinking is. They literally can’t ignore it like conservatives who in comparison have a smaller prefrontal.cortex and larger amygdala.

    You appeal to them thru fear and pressure, what you said would work on them not progressives.

    Note:

    If you really want sources for the prefrontal cortex/amygdala stuff I can find them.

      • givesomefucks@lemmy.worldEnglish
        55·
        2 months ago

        Except for that line I generally agree with you. I’d prefer focusing on the alternative, trump, as the main reason to vote kamala.

        But we don’t “win” just by trump not being president…

        We can’t just vote D every 4 (or even every 2) years and just hope shit gets better.

        And on this topic arguably Israel wants trump to win, as he would probably be much more pro Israel and anti Palestine.

        I’d argue against that.

        trump is unreliable and will do what Putin says. Israel is starting shit with their neighbors who have defense agreements with Russia. They have those because they can’t stand against Israel when the US is parking aircraft carriers right off the coast.

        They want Biden, but will settle for Kamala. And they own enough (from both parties) in Congress that the president doesn’t matter that much unless it’s someone willing to completely ignore procedure and laws…

        Like trump, or Biden when he went around Congress to provide arms for a genocide.

        Take a look at his family, he had kushner in his cabinet last time, known Israel supporter, and his daughter even converted to Judaism for this guy, so all the signs are there… trump would probably be very pro Israel

        Israel and Judaism is not the same thing…

        I do t know why that still needs said, but apparently it does

        trump is wildly unpredictable, that’s not good for allies. Because he could pull support at a moment’s notice for zero reason.

        If the US pulls support from Israel, they’re completely fucked. They’re the bully hiding behind the teacher for almost 80 years and if the US drops support, it’s the equivalent to the teacher leaving the bully alone with the class and no supervision

        • BakkodaEnglish
          5·
          2 months ago

          Then focus less on national elections and more on local/state. Stop being hyper focused on the dog and pony show it’s become and pay attention to what’s happening locally while most of the country is watching the other hand.

          No one intelligent is happy with this situation unless your wealth is dictating it. Reminding people about all the awful shit we get to support no matter who we vote for puts the person in a defense mode and will inevitably never help your cause.

    • yeahiknow3@lemmings.world
      23·
      2 months ago

      The reason for literally every single one of your complaints is public opinion. If you want things to change, you need to change people’s minds. That takes time and effort and it’s incredibly frustrating. I’ve given up trying to persuade people that torturing animals in factory farms is bad. Don’t forget 99% of human history had institutionalized slavery and rape. Most people are hopelessly morally bankrupt, unimaginably stupid, and barely sentient. Still, if you want the world to change, you gotta persuade them. No other option.

      • givesomefucks@lemmy.worldEnglish
        2·
        2 months ago

        public opinion

        This America…

        It doesn’t matter what the people want. It’s about what the donors want

        Because all Dems have to do is be slightly better than Republicans.

        Which in regards to Israel is “slightly less genocide and we’re pretend we do t like it”.

        Which is better than republicans.

        But we’d get waaay more votes if Dems just didn’t support genocide.

        • yeahiknow3@lemmings.world
          2·
          2 months ago

          It’s about what the donors want

          Yes, but the reason “donors” matter is precisely that their money can sway public opinion. Not the opinion of anyone intelligent, you understand, but that’s still most people.

          we’d get waaay more votes if Dems just didn’t support genocide.

          This is sadly false. Again, public opinion is with Israel for now. That’s reality. Wanna change things? Come up with a way to convince racists and folks with an IQ below 100 that genocide is bad.

          • givesomefucks@lemmy.worldEnglish
            1·
            2 months ago

            Yes, but the reason “donors” matter is precisely that their money can sway public opinion.

            No. Because the only thing each party needs to do is be slightly one one side of the issue from the other party.

            If you’re a voter in the upcoming US election and you don’t feel like the US president should support genocide…

            Tough shit.

            You literally don’t have an option that wont.

            Public opinion doesn’t come into play except for which side of an issue a politician will land on. With current political strategy the magnitude is inconsequential.

            One bomb less is the “lesser of two evils” there’s no return on going further in the current political system.

            Which is exactly the same.

            Again, public opinion is with Israel for now. That’s reality.

            But only if you include Republicans…

            Similar shares of Democrats and Republicans say the US is delivering the right amount of military aid to Israel, at 28% and 29%, respectively. The parties differ over the level of aid the US is providing, with 42% of Democrats saying the US is offering “too much” support, while 34% of Republicans believe not enough is being done.

            https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/29/politics/israel-gaza-americans-poll-chicago/index.html

            The people who are hardcore Trumpers that would never ever ever vote D under any circumstances.

            Republican policy is driven on polls of Republicans.

            Dem policy so driven on polls of Americans.

            The result is when a Republican wins, Republicans get what they want. When a Dem wins, Republicans still get most of what they want.

            It’s literally why the Overton window keeps moving to the right

            And it only hurts Dems in elections. And if Dem politicians priotized what Dem voters wanted Republican presidents would be a thing of the past. And lots of “red states” would be blue.

            But we don’t.

            Because what the voters want isn’t what the donors want.