"Progressives should not make the same mistake that Ernst Thälmann made in 1932. The leader of the German Communist Party, Thälmann saw mainstream liberals as his enemies, and so the center and left never joined forces against the Nazis. Thälmann famously said that ‘some Nazi trees must not be allowed to overshadow a forest’ of social democrats, whom he sneeringly called ‘social fascists.’
After Adolf Hitler gained power in 1933, Thälmann was arrested. He was shot on Hitler’s orders in Buchenwald concentration camp in 1944."
I mean unless you are intentionally being obtuse I feel like you know damn well what people mean when they say “A vote for X is a vote for Trump”. It’s not a coincidence that so many Republican allies and organizations are promoting and pumping up 3rd party candidates to run in various swing states and pull votes away from Harris, this isn’t a new tactic and historically has absolutely changed elections.
A vote for third party is a vote for Harris. You have to hold your nose and vote Trump!
But seriously, Libertarians are the largest third party by quite a margin. So third parties actually help Democrats. It is just the Democrats mentality that they are owed votes for not being Republicans, rather than a candidate’s or party’s job to try to appeal to voters that this narrative is pushed forward.
I do know what they are saying and I do not approve of the message. It shifts the blame onto people who voted for what they wanted instead voting against what they don’t want, which is what people should be doing in a democracy - instead of blaming the people who actually voted for Trump. Those people are the people that elect him, not the people who didn’t vote for him.
Well I’m sorry if that’s how you interpret reality, honestly I don’t care about “the message”, I care about the goal of TRUMP NOT FUCKING UP THIS COUNTRY MORE THAN HE ALREADY HAS.
Yes, we should be doing all we can to persuade people not to vote for Trump.
Which means voting for Harris. Not some third party throwaway.
No, I said very plainly what I meant. If you think that Harris is the best choice for the country, I encourage you to speak to people who aren’t going to vote for her and to to convince them of that. No more so than people who plan on voting for Trump.
I don’t know how you can be this dense. Not voting for Harris means you are voting for Trump. There is only one out of two people that will be winning the election: Trump or Harris.
Voting for anyone else is throwing your vote away and enabling Trump. That’s reality. That’s how it’s going to work, weither you like it or not, and regardless of whatever fantasy you’re entertaining.
No, you should do all you can to place an alternative candidate who is competitive
Sure, I’d agree with that too, but I’d say a literal rock should be competitive to Trump in a sane universe.
Fine, declare our universe not sane, we’d agree on that.
In this universe Harris is that only competitive rock.
Until a bunch of morons say “that rock didn’t embrace my issue hard enough, so I’m voting for that stick over there instead” and we end up with trump again.
You see, your first mistake here was assuming that America was a functioning democracy.
It’s not.
Play the game right or you’re gonna have the game taken away from you before you have a chance to fix it. FPTP is a zero sum game.
If America isn’t a democracy, the actions of the government don’t shadow the will of the people; therefore no American citizen can be guilty of supporting “the genocide”, right?
Right?
What you should be voting for is the vote that’s going to help the country head in the best direction among the choices you have. Sometimes that’s not what you want. It’s not what I want. I think Harris is too far right on many issues (though she’s def not worse than Trump on genocide) - but I realize that voting for what I want would be selfish because what I want has no chance of winning, but not quite what I want does have a chance. That chance diminishes if I vote for what I want, while increasing the chance of what I definitely DO NOT want winning.
I get what you are saying. I voted for Nader in 2000, still get shit for it today. No one has the right to tell you who to vote for, or to shame you for voting your conscience. But let’s not pretend there’s any third party siphoning off R votes like there are siphoning off D votes.
Vote your conscience, sure, but don’t try to pretend doing so doesn’t tip the scales of the actual outcome in a particular direction - it does, and you clearly realize it. That doesn’t mean you can’t make the selfish choice, but at least own it.
I was young and dumb and oblivious to that reality, and didn’t even know I was in a battleground state. If I had, I might (or might not) have voted differently.
I think we would agree on more than some might think. I think we disagree on just some of the nuance.
Very possible! 🙂