In a video, Matt Nelson said he would set himself ablaze "to stop supplying Israel with the money and weapons it uses to imprison and murder innocent Palestinians" and "to pressure Israel to end the genocide in Gaza."
What kind of argument is this? “We gotta keep supporting genocide, or there will be more genocide”
You aren’t paying attention if you don’t think this situation is horrendously bad and the people supporting it are monsters.
Anyway, here’s a picture of a US supplied bomb that killed 45 people at a refugee camp in Rafah.
Yes the US is supplying precision strike weapons, you know what Israel will do if they no longer have precision strike weapons? The answer is not give up and go home. It has been almost a year since the war started and casualties are at 40k. For a heavily populated urban environment that’s actually quite low because Israel uses precision strike weapons.
The US is the only country that has even a chance of bringing Israel to the table for ceasefire talks. There is literally no one else they will listen to. If the US withdraws support, that goes away.
If the US withdraws support, Iran invades. They’ve been pretty clear on that point, and a full scale war will only lead to vastly increased numbers of civilian deaths.
These things should not have to be pointed out. I get that people feel helpless, but the genocide doesn’t stop if the US withdraws support. It only gets worse.
There are a ton of things the US could do than just providing unconditional military aid to be used on Palestinian civilians that doesn’t result in Iran invading. At the absolute bare minimum enforce their own “red lines.” Precision strike weapons are pointless if they’re just used for indescriminate bombing.
You’re talking down to me as if you know the objective facts, but there are in fact things the US could do to stop this that they are actively choosing not to do. There are more conditions on weapons going to Ukraine than to Israel. It’s disgusting and apologists for it are disgusting.
You will be enriched in every way so that you can be generous on every occasion.
We’re just hitting the “random Bible verse” button right? Because speaking out against injustice is something that one can control. I can’t stop the injustice, but I can sure as hell make sure everyone knows that I think it’s shitty, and I can hope they will eventually stop being shitty.
You’re describing your version of “thoughts and prayers.”
The pro-Palestinian movement has devolved into a movement that’s largely based around hatred of Israel. Which is why most of society is ignoring it now. The genocide that’s being used to justify that hatred didn’t happen. The UN expressed concerns earlier in the year (which many took to be a declaration of genocide) but we haven’t heard anything from them since then. There were concerns over there being a famine (people said that was Israel’s intention) but that also didn’t happen.
The pro-Palestinian movement was unable to contain their hatred. Some people tried to call out the antisemitism but they were drowned out by the hate. So now it’s become an alt-right movement that distrusts the mainstream media (many think it’s controlled by the Jews) and have restricted their information intake to just internet sources that agree with their narrative. So it’s being ignored by most of society… other than concerns about potential violence coming from that movement. That movement failed to influence the broader population because no matter how much the hatred is denied by those within the movement, its obvious to everyone outside of the movement
Pushing false narratives isn’t going to help anyone in Palestine, but it’s not about helping Palestinians now is it? It’s about promoting hatred of Israel. The “speaking out” about a false narrative is just something that makes you feel better, it doesn’t help anyone. Probably actually hurts Palestinians because there won’t be peace as long as the hatred persists.
Crazy how much you can tell me about myself without knowing a single thing. Which of my two previous comments were anti semitic? Was it the one where I said we shouldn’t do nothing about injustice; or the one where I said we should voice our opinions?
The genocide didn’t happen
I believe 17 thousand dead children and 23 thousand of their dead parents would disagree with you. I think the 116 dead journalists would disagree (hey do you know what a war crime is? Journalists and civilians are protected classes during wartime). They’ve committed to total war - not just killing fighters, but bombing schools and hospitals too under the guise of “searching for the terrorists.” And they revel in it.
Maybe you haven’t heard anything about it, but the ICJ has been continuing to speak with both sides about their misdeeds. They’ve ordered Israel to stop destroying Palestine because they need to have evidence of both sides atrocities (Hamas has commit war crimes too!) to which Israel responded “the IDF is operating to dismantle Hamas military and administrative capabilities.” That was this May. Earlier this week, they bombed a school and claimed that 3 of the UNRWA members working there were Hamas agents - with literally 0 evidence as far as the UN can tell.
And before you start writing your response, really think about what you’re saying. You claim that those of us speaking out against it are spewing hatred, but I don’t hate Israel or Jewish people or any of that. I just wish that 40 thousand people (and counting! Humanitarian sites continue to get attacked to this day) didn’t have to die for no reason.
Here’s a hint, all indications are that it would make things much, much worse.
It absolutely would, and Israel knows that too. So if there were a real threat of “take it down a notch or US support stops” I’m guessing that might influence Israel. But there is no such threat, they will continue to receive our unconditional support no matter what, and so it will continue until Netanyahu gets tired.
There have been more casualties in Ukraine this year than in Gaza.
People are just being told it’s a genocide to upset them and to make them feel a sense of urgency to do something now. And probably to get Hamas some more money so they can drag this conflict out longer (which results in more casualties).
People are being fed a constant stream of images and stories to keep them angry without a moment to think. Now it’s starting to feel like people want there to be a genocide to prove their accusations were right.
There have been more casualties in Ukraine this year than in Gaza.
Ukraine’s population is 36M. Gaza’s, a bit over 2M. So comparing rates rather than absolute numbers might be less bad.
But it’s also a bad idea to get into contests about which catastrophe is worse, when both are appalling crimes against humanity committed by imperialist/colonialist nationalist aggressors.
And what’s happening in Sudan is even larger-scale.
It’s a genocide. They are taking their sweet time about it. It will take a few generations rather than a few years or weeks or months, but the end goal is clear, no more Palestinians in Palestine. it’s been a genocide since the 2 state solution was abandoned.
Do they really think the genocide would stop if the US stopped supporting Israel? Are they really that ignorant of the situation over there?
Here’s a hint, all indications are that it would make things much, much worse. If you don’t understand how, then you haven’t been paying attention.
What kind of argument is this? “We gotta keep supporting genocide, or there will be more genocide” You aren’t paying attention if you don’t think this situation is horrendously bad and the people supporting it are monsters.
Anyway, here’s a picture of a US supplied bomb that killed 45 people at a refugee camp in Rafah.
Yes the US is supplying precision strike weapons, you know what Israel will do if they no longer have precision strike weapons? The answer is not give up and go home. It has been almost a year since the war started and casualties are at 40k. For a heavily populated urban environment that’s actually quite low because Israel uses precision strike weapons.
The US is the only country that has even a chance of bringing Israel to the table for ceasefire talks. There is literally no one else they will listen to. If the US withdraws support, that goes away.
If the US withdraws support, Iran invades. They’ve been pretty clear on that point, and a full scale war will only lead to vastly increased numbers of civilian deaths.
These things should not have to be pointed out. I get that people feel helpless, but the genocide doesn’t stop if the US withdraws support. It only gets worse.
Yeah how are those ceasefire talks going?
There are a ton of things the US could do than just providing unconditional military aid to be used on Palestinian civilians that doesn’t result in Iran invading. At the absolute bare minimum enforce their own “red lines.” Precision strike weapons are pointless if they’re just used for indescriminate bombing.
You’re talking down to me as if you know the objective facts, but there are in fact things the US could do to stop this that they are actively choosing not to do. There are more conditions on weapons going to Ukraine than to Israel. It’s disgusting and apologists for it are disgusting.
Just want to touch on one point to highlight how you’re not thinking rationally and maybe have been taking too many headlines at face value:
If Israel’s goal was to “bomb indescriminately” why would they bother using precision strike weapons?
Because doing nothing about it is any better? Lol
Have the serenity to accept the things you cannot change, the courage to change the things you can, and wisdom to know the difference.
You will be enriched in every way so that you can be generous on every occasion.
We’re just hitting the “random Bible verse” button right? Because speaking out against injustice is something that one can control. I can’t stop the injustice, but I can sure as hell make sure everyone knows that I think it’s shitty, and I can hope they will eventually stop being shitty.
You’re describing your version of “thoughts and prayers.”
The pro-Palestinian movement has devolved into a movement that’s largely based around hatred of Israel. Which is why most of society is ignoring it now. The genocide that’s being used to justify that hatred didn’t happen. The UN expressed concerns earlier in the year (which many took to be a declaration of genocide) but we haven’t heard anything from them since then. There were concerns over there being a famine (people said that was Israel’s intention) but that also didn’t happen.
The pro-Palestinian movement was unable to contain their hatred. Some people tried to call out the antisemitism but they were drowned out by the hate. So now it’s become an alt-right movement that distrusts the mainstream media (many think it’s controlled by the Jews) and have restricted their information intake to just internet sources that agree with their narrative. So it’s being ignored by most of society… other than concerns about potential violence coming from that movement. That movement failed to influence the broader population because no matter how much the hatred is denied by those within the movement, its obvious to everyone outside of the movement
Pushing false narratives isn’t going to help anyone in Palestine, but it’s not about helping Palestinians now is it? It’s about promoting hatred of Israel. The “speaking out” about a false narrative is just something that makes you feel better, it doesn’t help anyone. Probably actually hurts Palestinians because there won’t be peace as long as the hatred persists.
Crazy how much you can tell me about myself without knowing a single thing. Which of my two previous comments were anti semitic? Was it the one where I said we shouldn’t do nothing about injustice; or the one where I said we should voice our opinions?
I believe 17 thousand dead children and 23 thousand of their dead parents would disagree with you. I think the 116 dead journalists would disagree (hey do you know what a war crime is? Journalists and civilians are protected classes during wartime). They’ve committed to total war - not just killing fighters, but bombing schools and hospitals too under the guise of “searching for the terrorists.” And they revel in it.
Maybe you haven’t heard anything about it, but the ICJ has been continuing to speak with both sides about their misdeeds. They’ve ordered Israel to stop destroying Palestine because they need to have evidence of both sides atrocities (Hamas has commit war crimes too!) to which Israel responded “the IDF is operating to dismantle Hamas military and administrative capabilities.” That was this May. Earlier this week, they bombed a school and claimed that 3 of the UNRWA members working there were Hamas agents - with literally 0 evidence as far as the UN can tell.
And before you start writing your response, really think about what you’re saying. You claim that those of us speaking out against it are spewing hatred, but I don’t hate Israel or Jewish people or any of that. I just wish that 40 thousand people (and counting! Humanitarian sites continue to get attacked to this day) didn’t have to die for no reason.
It absolutely would, and Israel knows that too. So if there were a real threat of “take it down a notch or US support stops” I’m guessing that might influence Israel. But there is no such threat, they will continue to receive our unconditional support no matter what, and so it will continue until Netanyahu gets tired.
There have been more casualties in Ukraine this year than in Gaza.
People are just being told it’s a genocide to upset them and to make them feel a sense of urgency to do something now. And probably to get Hamas some more money so they can drag this conflict out longer (which results in more casualties).
People are being fed a constant stream of images and stories to keep them angry without a moment to think. Now it’s starting to feel like people want there to be a genocide to prove their accusations were right.
Ukraine’s population is 36M. Gaza’s, a bit over 2M. So comparing rates rather than absolute numbers might be less bad.
But it’s also a bad idea to get into contests about which catastrophe is worse, when both are appalling crimes against humanity committed by imperialist/colonialist nationalist aggressors.
And what’s happening in Sudan is even larger-scale.
It’s a genocide. They are taking their sweet time about it. It will take a few generations rather than a few years or weeks or months, but the end goal is clear, no more Palestinians in Palestine. it’s been a genocide since the 2 state solution was abandoned.
The 2-state solution was never viable. The power asymmetry is too great.
I genuinely agree that the 2 state solution is not remotely likely.
But without it, an apartied state is the best case scenario. More likely, someone is getting genocided, so however unlikely, it has my support.