Tariffs only make sense when you can outcompete or at least get parity with your opposition. We can’t do that immediately and Trump is like a child who never had to wait for anything because he’s quite literally a child who’s never had to wait for anything.
So how does that make products cheaper in the short term that he says it will, I.e the 4 years of a presidency?
With his proposed tariffs of 100%, washing machines used to cost $500, they are now $1000. Same machine, same features. Washing machine factory dont exist locally, and may not even exist because the margins may still not work out. Even if they intend to build one, how does that help me even long term? Washing machine prices are now anchored at $1000 instead of the $500 because their only competition has their price controlled at that rate.
How is me losing $500 dollars from now on for the same product saving me money? How does this repeating for hundreds or thousands of products help me save money while losing more money on each of them?
So how does that make products cheaper in the short term that he says it will, I.e the 4 years of a presidency?
it does not, goal of the tax is not to make product cheaper.
Washing machine factory dont exist locally, and may not even exist because the margins may still not work out.
well the goal is obviously encourage growth of local manufacturers, so hopefully there will be one (or more)
Even if they intend to build one, how does that help me even long term?
your neighbour now may have a job manufacturing washing machines he didn’t have before and can buy service you provide, so you will also end up with more money.
the state has 500 usd from some imported washing machines, which, hopefully, it will invest wisely to further increase the general well being of the population (don’t laugh, i know. but if they don’t, that’s not problem of the economic principal)
and when one day china says “no more washing machines for you, unless you bow to winnie the pooh here”, you may say “fuck you, we are actually manufacturing washing machines at home”
the last part, the self sufficiency, is the most important. my country officials were bowing and saluting to china cargo planes carrying masks and syringes during covid and there were real fear they if they did not, the plane might not have landed. and being dependent on china, which is euro-atlantic civilization’s geopolitical enemy is not smart long term strategy.
Washing machine prices are now anchored at $1000 instead of the $500 because their only competition has their price controlled at that rate.
well you now have more players on the market than before, so there is more competition and you are in better position than before. but unfortunately it is true that things will not get cheaper. there is 8 fucking billion of us on the finite planet and we are finally starting to realize it does not allow for infinite growth. more expensive stuff aka our ability to have less of it is manifestation of that problem, it is not some fluke that smart politician will solve with right slogan.
No, people just won’t buy that shit, necessities are by in large owned by huge multi national corporations who won’t end up paying that tariff they’ll just wrap it into the price and pass out to the consumer.
i don’t think you understand what tariff is and how it works. say there is some american made goods, it costs 10 usd. and here is the chinese equialent, it costs 5 usd, for seemingly similar product.
majority of people will buy the 5 usd product, because “they are not dumb, right” TM
you subject that chinese product to 5 usd import tax - now both of them cost 10 and you can as well buy the home made made one.
yes, it is more expensive for you.
but on the other hand your neighbour now may have a job he didn’t before and can buy service you provide, so you will also end up with more money.
and the state still has that 5 usd which, hopefully, it will invest wisely to further increase the general well being of the population (don’t laugh, i know. but if they don’t, that’s not problem of the economic principal)
and when one day china says “no more products for you, unless you bow to winnie the pooh here”, you may say “fuck you, we are actually manufacturing the product at home and we are not going to starve without you”
the last part, the self sufficiency, is the most important. my country officials were bowing and saluting to china cargo planes carrying masks and syringes during covid and there were real fear they if they did not, the plane might not have landed. and being dependent on china, which is euro-atlantic civilization’s geopolitical enemy is not smart long term strategy.
Except, more likely, there are few available competitors to the tarriffed product and now the consumer covers the increased cost. Meanwhile, local alternatives, where they are available, price up because, well they had market when the pre-tarrif import was available and their own delta was what it was, so they can push the price up to just capture more profit with the same or still larger market, depending on the good.
The point is that deploying the sort of policy is incredibly tricky in the best of circumstances, and still likely to do more harm than help. And that you think, of all people, someone as very obviously stupid as Trump is capable of threading that needle is beyond baffling.
Tariffs only make sense when you can outcompete or at least get parity with your opposition. We can’t do that immediately and Trump is like a child who never had to wait for anything because he’s quite literally a child who’s never had to wait for anything.
You can use the money from the tariff to help local bussines to strive towards that goal.
So how does that make products cheaper in the short term that he says it will, I.e the 4 years of a presidency?
With his proposed tariffs of 100%, washing machines used to cost $500, they are now $1000. Same machine, same features. Washing machine factory dont exist locally, and may not even exist because the margins may still not work out. Even if they intend to build one, how does that help me even long term? Washing machine prices are now anchored at $1000 instead of the $500 because their only competition has their price controlled at that rate.
How is me losing $500 dollars from now on for the same product saving me money? How does this repeating for hundreds or thousands of products help me save money while losing more money on each of them?
it does not, goal of the tax is not to make product cheaper.
well the goal is obviously encourage growth of local manufacturers, so hopefully there will be one (or more)
your neighbour now may have a job manufacturing washing machines he didn’t have before and can buy service you provide, so you will also end up with more money.
the state has 500 usd from some imported washing machines, which, hopefully, it will invest wisely to further increase the general well being of the population (don’t laugh, i know. but if they don’t, that’s not problem of the economic principal)
and when one day china says “no more washing machines for you, unless you bow to winnie the pooh here”, you may say “fuck you, we are actually manufacturing washing machines at home”
the last part, the self sufficiency, is the most important. my country officials were bowing and saluting to china cargo planes carrying masks and syringes during covid and there were real fear they if they did not, the plane might not have landed. and being dependent on china, which is euro-atlantic civilization’s geopolitical enemy is not smart long term strategy.
well you now have more players on the market than before, so there is more competition and you are in better position than before. but unfortunately it is true that things will not get cheaper. there is 8 fucking billion of us on the finite planet and we are finally starting to realize it does not allow for infinite growth. more expensive stuff aka our ability to have less of it is manifestation of that problem, it is not some fluke that smart politician will solve with right slogan.
No, people just won’t buy that shit, necessities are by in large owned by huge multi national corporations who won’t end up paying that tariff they’ll just wrap it into the price and pass out to the consumer.
i don’t think you understand what tariff is and how it works. say there is some american made goods, it costs 10 usd. and here is the chinese equialent, it costs 5 usd, for seemingly similar product.
majority of people will buy the 5 usd product, because “they are not dumb, right” TM
you subject that chinese product to 5 usd import tax - now both of them cost 10 and you can as well buy the home made made one.
yes, it is more expensive for you.
but on the other hand your neighbour now may have a job he didn’t before and can buy service you provide, so you will also end up with more money.
and the state still has that 5 usd which, hopefully, it will invest wisely to further increase the general well being of the population (don’t laugh, i know. but if they don’t, that’s not problem of the economic principal)
and when one day china says “no more products for you, unless you bow to winnie the pooh here”, you may say “fuck you, we are actually manufacturing the product at home and we are not going to starve without you”
the last part, the self sufficiency, is the most important. my country officials were bowing and saluting to china cargo planes carrying masks and syringes during covid and there were real fear they if they did not, the plane might not have landed. and being dependent on china, which is euro-atlantic civilization’s geopolitical enemy is not smart long term strategy.
Ideally that’s how it works. Economics are rarely of ever ideal and tariffs statistically do not end up working as ideal.
nothing in the world works optimally. that doesn’t mean we stop trying.
It doesn’t mean we stab ourselves to death either though.
Except, more likely, there are few available competitors to the tarriffed product and now the consumer covers the increased cost. Meanwhile, local alternatives, where they are available, price up because, well they had market when the pre-tarrif import was available and their own delta was what it was, so they can push the price up to just capture more profit with the same or still larger market, depending on the good.
The point is that deploying the sort of policy is incredibly tricky in the best of circumstances, and still likely to do more harm than help. And that you think, of all people, someone as very obviously stupid as Trump is capable of threading that needle is beyond baffling.
Nope. Tariffs are price increases. They don’t directly generate revenue.
yes, they are, that’s what taxes do.
yes, they do, that’s what taxes do.
Striving toward a goal is not immediately. Immediately people will see higher prices on a lot of familiar brands.
yes, striving toward a goal is, by definition, not immediately.
yes, that’s how long term goals work. you are building a house, you have bought a brick today, spent money, and you still don’t have a house!
Our point is that you still need shelter while you build a new house.
sure, but that doesn’t mean the idea of building a house is bad one.
People aren’t arguing that tariffs are bad, they’re arguing that large instant tariffs are.