Ok I think this should finally bring to light how TOS should not be enforceable contracts. As
1- its common knowledge that the average person does not read TOS. Therefore, it should be unreasonable to expect the average consumer to have completely understood what they have agreed to, without any legal representation to clarify the contract
2 - TOS are written like legal jargin straight from the legal department. Unfortunately, the client base is either 10 year olds lying about their age, 80 year olds who barely understand what a TOS is, and the average consumer who was never presented with a contract, just a simple “Accept or Decline”
3 - If TOS is meant to be as enforceable as it is, then we need a new set of data laws / seperate justice system to actually regulate those TOS. From what I understand, real life laws still apply to contracts where both parties consented. Aka, even if you agreed to kill someone who wanted to die, murder is illegal.
I hope we can bring some real change instead of letting this go to the side too. I was hoping the Disney thing would be bigger than it was, but then again who’s taking Disney to court and surviving? It’s sad to think they can get away with this, and its sadder to know we’re less valuable than the data we produce.
Also any clause like this would be thrown out as a violation of laws anyways. You cannot deny a party to seek damages for events completely unrelated to the scope of the contract. Especially not indefinitely into the future or for actions subject to criminal law.
Heck half the time my screen reading software glitches out on ToS pages, so I just have to assume I’m selling my soul but hopefully not much else and click accept because it’s not like I’m going to find someone to sit and read it out to me, that would take hours!
And yet for every other contract I have ever signed in my entire life, I have a legal right to ask for it in an accessible form before I sign it. As a visually impaired person, uber is present in my life.
I hated it, it was the most inaccessible app for such a purpose, and the drivers really did not understand I can’t see what they see. I like just calling the depot, talking to a human, and booking a cab… But you can’t do that now either because when you call you wait on hold for 20 minutes while the automated message tells you about the taxi app.
So now unfortunately, uber is easier to book than a taxi, I don’t know if the ToS in the taxi app has any harmful stuff about arbitration because again, I’ve never been able to get a screen reader to read out the ToS properly on any app!
I feel like such a boomer, but I am really feeling more and more isolated as every service Abdi connection I’ve built my life around is moving online into a digital visual space faster than the affordable assustive technology can keep up with.
I’m expected to read something on a screen when I physically can not, uber and similar apps, including the app my local state government brought in during covid that now holds much only transit ID to show transit staff I’m blind (to get l transport assistance at train stations) all do this.
Once you open the wallet section of the app, for fraud prevention they disabled third party screen readers from reading anything on the app.
I have to open my app, then ask the other person to look through my wallet for me to find the card because I can’t, it’s such a privacy violation.
Most of the world has continental law where most of these things would be written in a law somewhere and unenforceable through TOS as those provisions would be deemed in conflict with the law and therefore void.
Ok I think this should finally bring to light how TOS should not be enforceable contracts. As
1- its common knowledge that the average person does not read TOS. Therefore, it should be unreasonable to expect the average consumer to have completely understood what they have agreed to, without any legal representation to clarify the contract
2 - TOS are written like legal jargin straight from the legal department. Unfortunately, the client base is either 10 year olds lying about their age, 80 year olds who barely understand what a TOS is, and the average consumer who was never presented with a contract, just a simple “Accept or Decline”
3 - If TOS is meant to be as enforceable as it is, then we need a new set of data laws / seperate justice system to actually regulate those TOS. From what I understand, real life laws still apply to contracts where both parties consented. Aka, even if you agreed to kill someone who wanted to die, murder is illegal.
I hope we can bring some real change instead of letting this go to the side too. I was hoping the Disney thing would be bigger than it was, but then again who’s taking Disney to court and surviving? It’s sad to think they can get away with this, and its sadder to know we’re less valuable than the data we produce.
Fun fact: in Germany, anything “unexpected” they write in TOS is not legally binding, because everyone knows noone reads it.
Also any clause like this would be thrown out as a violation of laws anyways. You cannot deny a party to seek damages for events completely unrelated to the scope of the contract. Especially not indefinitely into the future or for actions subject to criminal law.
That sounds perfectly reasonable…
“This comment is way too long.”
presses Agree
Heck half the time my screen reading software glitches out on ToS pages, so I just have to assume I’m selling my soul but hopefully not much else and click accept because it’s not like I’m going to find someone to sit and read it out to me, that would take hours!
And yet for every other contract I have ever signed in my entire life, I have a legal right to ask for it in an accessible form before I sign it. As a visually impaired person, uber is present in my life.
I hated it, it was the most inaccessible app for such a purpose, and the drivers really did not understand I can’t see what they see. I like just calling the depot, talking to a human, and booking a cab… But you can’t do that now either because when you call you wait on hold for 20 minutes while the automated message tells you about the taxi app.
So now unfortunately, uber is easier to book than a taxi, I don’t know if the ToS in the taxi app has any harmful stuff about arbitration because again, I’ve never been able to get a screen reader to read out the ToS properly on any app!
I feel like such a boomer, but I am really feeling more and more isolated as every service Abdi connection I’ve built my life around is moving online into a digital visual space faster than the affordable assustive technology can keep up with.
I’m expected to read something on a screen when I physically can not, uber and similar apps, including the app my local state government brought in during covid that now holds much only transit ID to show transit staff I’m blind (to get l transport assistance at train stations) all do this.
Once you open the wallet section of the app, for fraud prevention they disabled third party screen readers from reading anything on the app.
I have to open my app, then ask the other person to look through my wallet for me to find the card because I can’t, it’s such a privacy violation.
Companies really don’t put much effort into making these readable or accessible.
Many websites I’ve used it’s even a broken link, there’s nothing to read but I’m expected to agree anyway.
The terms are usually extremely long and repetitive, they’re not designed to be actually read by people.
All the more reason why they can’t be used as valid and binding contracts in a court of law!
Well, that’s common law for you.
Most of the world has continental law where most of these things would be written in a law somewhere and unenforceable through TOS as those provisions would be deemed in conflict with the law and therefore void.
I actually loved how Larian wrote the ToS for Baldurs Gate 3. It’s written as if it is a warlock pact.
It’s the first time I have actually read a ToS in years.