Finally, yes! Anyone who wants to vote for a third party should instead spend their time and effort fighting for a different voting system (ranked choice, star, etc) that could mathematically allow a third party to actually succeed.
It does, but it’s just a big gamble. You’re attempting to scare one of the establishment parties into changing by causing them to lose an election heavily. So, if it works, you’ve necessarily made a material sacrifice in giving control of an office to the opposing party, allowing them to cause whatever real world damage they are capable of causing in that position. Then you have to hope that the message is received and that the party you spoiled actually changes in the way you want, and doesn’t just ignore you. And you also have to hope that they recognize and change quickly or else the damage compounds as more elections pass.
On top of that, this only works “once”. If the party starts ignoring you again you have to make these real consequential sacrifices again.
In conclusion, with voting third party the sacrifice is guaranteed, the reward is not.
I will admit it’s possible that spoiling/scaring is the only way to get RCV (or better) in the first place since the only group it’s not good for is sitting politicians, but I’m not convinced yet.
But I’m entirely convinced that without an improved voting system we don’t actually have a democracy.
And for anyone who’s reading this, if you’re a Missourian vote NO on Amendment 7!
Well if the outcome is so undecided as to not be able to logical choose a side, then I will almost always choose the side that is reforming what we have or creating something new, rather than sticking with what we have and just trying to do it right each time.
We know 100% that waiting for politicians to give away their own power isn’t working, so even a minuscule chance of something better has to be given at least some consideration.
The problem is that there simply can’t be a third party. In our current system a third party is mathematically impossible. I would love for a majority of citizens to suddenly throw caution to the wind magically surge a third party into power. But it’s just not realistic. Again, the most a third party can do is cause a scare, but it’ll never come into power.
Also for what it’s worth there is an RCV bill for federal congressional elections in the House, which I think has a much better chance of passing than a similar bill in a deeply rural state like Missouri. Once established at a federal level I think it would simply be a matter of time until it made it’s way to even resistant states.
Right, both of these things can be true: Third parties are impossible in our system. Third parties are vital to save our system.
There’s no law of nature that says that our system must or will endure. We could just be fucked. No, wait, look at the polls for the current presidential election cycle; we’re definitely fucked.
Doesn’t mean we can’t make a doomed effort to save it, though.
STAR is good for the existence of ideas but not for actually getting third party candidates elected. It stands for Score Then Automatic Run off. The top two candidates advance to the Automatic Run off. That’s just the FPTP with a dressing that makes third party voters feel better.
RCP actually empowers third party voters, is easy to understand, and is already being adopted.
STAR vote to make parties irrelevant except at the coalition building level!
Finally, yes! Anyone who wants to vote for a third party should instead spend their time and effort fighting for a different voting system (ranked choice, star, etc) that could mathematically allow a third party to actually succeed.
In some perspectives, fighting for third parties does fight for a different voting system.
It does, but it’s just a big gamble. You’re attempting to scare one of the establishment parties into changing by causing them to lose an election heavily. So, if it works, you’ve necessarily made a material sacrifice in giving control of an office to the opposing party, allowing them to cause whatever real world damage they are capable of causing in that position. Then you have to hope that the message is received and that the party you spoiled actually changes in the way you want, and doesn’t just ignore you. And you also have to hope that they recognize and change quickly or else the damage compounds as more elections pass.
On top of that, this only works “once”. If the party starts ignoring you again you have to make these real consequential sacrifices again.
In conclusion, with voting third party the sacrifice is guaranteed, the reward is not.
I will admit it’s possible that spoiling/scaring is the only way to get RCV (or better) in the first place since the only group it’s not good for is sitting politicians, but I’m not convinced yet.
But I’m entirely convinced that without an improved voting system we don’t actually have a democracy.
And for anyone who’s reading this, if you’re a Missourian vote NO on Amendment 7!
Well if the outcome is so undecided as to not be able to logical choose a side, then I will almost always choose the side that is reforming what we have or creating something new, rather than sticking with what we have and just trying to do it right each time.
We know 100% that waiting for politicians to give away their own power isn’t working, so even a minuscule chance of something better has to be given at least some consideration.
A group here in the Midwest tried. The duopoly collaborated to squash the effort. We need a third party to make it happen.
The problem is that there simply can’t be a third party. In our current system a third party is mathematically impossible. I would love for a majority of citizens to suddenly throw caution to the wind magically surge a third party into power. But it’s just not realistic. Again, the most a third party can do is cause a scare, but it’ll never come into power.
Also for what it’s worth there is an RCV bill for federal congressional elections in the House, which I think has a much better chance of passing than a similar bill in a deeply rural state like Missouri. Once established at a federal level I think it would simply be a matter of time until it made it’s way to even resistant states.
Right, both of these things can be true: Third parties are impossible in our system. Third parties are vital to save our system.
There’s no law of nature that says that our system must or will endure. We could just be fucked. No, wait, look at the polls for the current presidential election cycle; we’re definitely fucked.
Doesn’t mean we can’t make a doomed effort to save it, though.
“Fighting for” is leaving a lot up for interpretation here.
You’re right. In another reply I said that voting third party might move the needle for RCV, but it’s iffy.
STAR is good for the existence of ideas but not for actually getting third party candidates elected. It stands for Score Then Automatic Run off. The top two candidates advance to the Automatic Run off. That’s just the FPTP with a dressing that makes third party voters feel better.
RCP actually empowers third party voters, is easy to understand, and is already being adopted.