Researchers have found that almost all road users break the law, but the reasons for the infractions differ between modes, with cyclists doing it to save their necks.
Let me start by saying that I fully believe in fuck cars and instead having bike lanes and public transportation everywhere.
I alternate between commuting to work by car and bicycle, and I tend to observe other cyclists when I’m driving. What I notice is that a lot of cyclists place themselves in extremely dangerous situations, considering that there are careless drivers on our roads. Running red lights and stop signs is the least of it (I haven’t had a need to run red lights, but run stop signs regularly). Most of what I have observed where I live (an urban area) is not cyclists breaking the law to protect themselves, but the opposite: sometimes breaking the law and sometimes obeying the law, both in a way that makes things more dangerous for themselves and for drivers.
Some examples I’ve seen (more frequently than running stop signs - I very rarely if ever have seen a bicyclist running a red light and would completely understand if they had to do it because of stoplight sensors not detecting them):
Breaking the law (sometimes a combination of several of these):
Riding on the sidewalk (arguably improves their safety in some ways, and worsens it in others)
Riding the wrong way, against traffic (worsens their safety)
Riding the wrong way, against traffic, on the sidewalk (greatly worsens their safety - I almost ran into someone doing this once because I just did not expect someone coming from the wrong direction at high speed in a completely unexpected place when I was turning into a driveway/side street)
Riding on crosswalks when pedestrian walking lights are on (worsens their safety)
Riding wearing headphones (not sure if illegal - it is for drivers - but worsens their safety)
Riding on busy streets not wearing a helmet (not sure if illegal, but worsens their safety)
Riding on the street at night with no bike lights (worsens their safety)
Obeying the law:
Riding in just about the busiest, fastest street possible, when there’s a much safer, parallel, designated “bicycle” street to ride a block away. While this is legal, it makes things more dangerous for themselves and for drivers when they have a perfectly reasonable alternative. I personally go out of my way (literally) to find the least busy streets for my commuting route.
So I guess I’m saying that I’m surprised by the results of this study. I only scanned the actual paper, but one thing that comes to mind is that perhaps some/many cyclists have a greater disconnect between what they think improves their safety vs. what would actually improve their safety?
I tend to observe other cyclists when I’m driving.
So I guess I’m saying that I’m surprised by the results of this study.
That’s because you’re using anecdotal evidence. If you are looking for cyclists breaking the law, you’ll find it because of your inherent bias. This is precisely why studies are needed to back up what we think may be true but aren’t sure of. We have to cut away our biases.
Sure, I recognize that what I’m saying is anecdotal, obviously, and I recognize the need for real studies, but it was still surprising that what they seem to be saying in the article (again, I didn’t read the paper in detail) doesn’t match what I’ve seen in my city. I can assure you that I see more of the other things I listed than cyclists running stop signs. But maybe you’re right and I notice stop sign running less because I do it myself (edit: when I’m cycling, not when I’m driving).
Sure, I realize that. Maybe I wasn’t clear or perhaps overly verbose in my previous post, but my point is that running stop signs and red lights is the mildest form of “illegal” (in most places but not all) and like you said, arguably could be said to improve cycling safety. I just thought it was a weird thing to focus on. There seemed to be no mention of either why running stop lights or stop signs can improve cycling safety, or the myriad other ways that cyclists frequently break the law and make things more dangerous for themselves. Maybe there was mention in the paper itself, I didn’t read it in detail, but the article didn’t mention it.
PS: I upvoted you, by the way. Not sure who downvoted you or why.
Regarding riding on the sidewalk/crosswalk, I was only speaking of safety for the cyclists themselves. Especially the sidewalk may seem safer, until a car coming out of or turning into a driveway runs into you because they don’t expect someone moving at bicycle speed on the sidewalk.
Regarding riding the wrong way, I was only speaking in the context of when there is car traffic on the same street. Of course, if there are no cars then there’s no added risk to riding in any direction.
Yeah, that was poorly worded on my part. What I meant was that the combination of direction AND speed was what was wrong. I was turning from a stop sign and didn’t expect someone coming at speed against the direction of traffic that they were closest to and that I was looking out for.
If they had been going that speed on the sidewalk going the same direction as the car lane closest to them I would have noticed them. If they had come from the opposite direction at pedestrian speed I would have noticed them. It was the combination of both speed and direction that almost resulted in a collision. I hope that clarifies.
I find it doesn’t matter though which way you ride: riding on the sidewalk is unsafe.
When (US) turning right from the right lane, drivers don’t expect you to be coming from behind to the right of them at any speed.
When turning left from the left lane, drivers don’t expect you to be coming from behind to the left at any speed.
When backing out across the sidewalk, drivers don’t expect you to be to either side at any speed.
I’m seeing a pattern here, and it’s that drivers only see what they expect to see, where they expect to see it. I’ve fucked it up myself from time to time, and this leads me to the conclusion that the safest option for biking is to be where drivers are looking: in the vehicle lanes, going the same direction as other vehicles. It’s not perfect because they still aren’t expecting a bicycle, but it’s still the best choice we have.
Pedestrians are supposed to walk against traffic, in general (although it doesn’t matter as much when there are proper sidewalks). Cyclists are supposed to ride with traffic in all cases, because they are traffic.
Let me start by saying that I fully believe in fuck cars and instead having bike lanes and public transportation everywhere.
I alternate between commuting to work by car and bicycle, and I tend to observe other cyclists when I’m driving. What I notice is that a lot of cyclists place themselves in extremely dangerous situations, considering that there are careless drivers on our roads. Running red lights and stop signs is the least of it (I haven’t had a need to run red lights, but run stop signs regularly). Most of what I have observed where I live (an urban area) is not cyclists breaking the law to protect themselves, but the opposite: sometimes breaking the law and sometimes obeying the law, both in a way that makes things more dangerous for themselves and for drivers.
Some examples I’ve seen (more frequently than running stop signs - I very rarely if ever have seen a bicyclist running a red light and would completely understand if they had to do it because of stoplight sensors not detecting them):
Breaking the law (sometimes a combination of several of these):
Obeying the law:
So I guess I’m saying that I’m surprised by the results of this study. I only scanned the actual paper, but one thing that comes to mind is that perhaps some/many cyclists have a greater disconnect between what they think improves their safety vs. what would actually improve their safety?
That’s because you’re using anecdotal evidence. If you are looking for cyclists breaking the law, you’ll find it because of your inherent bias. This is precisely why studies are needed to back up what we think may be true but aren’t sure of. We have to cut away our biases.
Sure, I recognize that what I’m saying is anecdotal, obviously, and I recognize the need for real studies, but it was still surprising that what they seem to be saying in the article (again, I didn’t read the paper in detail) doesn’t match what I’ve seen in my city. I can assure you that I see more of the other things I listed than cyclists running stop signs. But maybe you’re right and I notice stop sign running less because I do it myself (edit: when I’m cycling, not when I’m driving).
Depending on the local laws, running red lights and stop signs can be perfectly legal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop
Studies have shown this can improve cycling safety.
Sure, I realize that. Maybe I wasn’t clear or perhaps overly verbose in my previous post, but my point is that running stop signs and red lights is the mildest form of “illegal” (in most places but not all) and like you said, arguably could be said to improve cycling safety. I just thought it was a weird thing to focus on. There seemed to be no mention of either why running stop lights or stop signs can improve cycling safety, or the myriad other ways that cyclists frequently break the law and make things more dangerous for themselves. Maybe there was mention in the paper itself, I didn’t read it in detail, but the article didn’t mention it.
PS: I upvoted you, by the way. Not sure who downvoted you or why.
~~All ~~ Many of these “worsen safety” are irrelevant generalizations at best.
(edit: Ok, the last three bullet points about headphones/helmet/lights are more legit.)
Regarding riding on the sidewalk/crosswalk, I was only speaking of safety for the cyclists themselves. Especially the sidewalk may seem safer, until a car coming out of or turning into a driveway runs into you because they don’t expect someone moving at bicycle speed on the sidewalk.
Regarding riding the wrong way, I was only speaking in the context of when there is car traffic on the same street. Of course, if there are no cars then there’s no added risk to riding in any direction.
Which way is “the wrong way” here? I can’t think of a time or place when I’ve seen or heard of a one-way sidewalk.
Yeah, that was poorly worded on my part. What I meant was that the combination of direction AND speed was what was wrong. I was turning from a stop sign and didn’t expect someone coming at speed against the direction of traffic that they were closest to and that I was looking out for.
If they had been going that speed on the sidewalk going the same direction as the car lane closest to them I would have noticed them. If they had come from the opposite direction at pedestrian speed I would have noticed them. It was the combination of both speed and direction that almost resulted in a collision. I hope that clarifies.
It does.
I find it doesn’t matter though which way you ride: riding on the sidewalk is unsafe.
When (US) turning right from the right lane, drivers don’t expect you to be coming from behind to the right of them at any speed.
When turning left from the left lane, drivers don’t expect you to be coming from behind to the left at any speed.
When backing out across the sidewalk, drivers don’t expect you to be to either side at any speed.
I’m seeing a pattern here, and it’s that drivers only see what they expect to see, where they expect to see it. I’ve fucked it up myself from time to time, and this leads me to the conclusion that the safest option for biking is to be where drivers are looking: in the vehicle lanes, going the same direction as other vehicles. It’s not perfect because they still aren’t expecting a bicycle, but it’s still the best choice we have.
I agree with all you said, 100%!
You quoted his answer:
Pedestrians are supposed to walk against traffic, in general (although it doesn’t matter as much when there are proper sidewalks). Cyclists are supposed to ride with traffic in all cases, because they are traffic.
That applies when there’s no sidewalk. Never heard of such a concept when it comes to sidewalks, and as I iterated it doesn’t help anyway.
This is interesting. I hadn’t heard of the recommendation for pedestrians to walk against traffic before. I’ll have to look it up. Thanks.