I’ve been pretty happy with my home setup for a while. I have progressed from the Sage Barista Express to the Sage Oracle and never had any issues at all. I recently bought a hand grinder for when I have a speciality blend or am on the road and so purchased a KinGrinder K6. I have found that it is actually a lot better than the grinder built into the Sage.
I am now looking at upgrading to a separate grinder and maybe swapping to a more manual Espresso machine also.
I have looked at Niche and Eureka as well as the Df83 grinders but honestly am a little lost. I only drink Espresso based drinks and am UK based.
I have also looked at the La Pavoni and Eureka machines for Espresso.
Just really looking for some guidance. I have an independent coffee roaster that I get my beans from and like a darker roast and am happy with what I get. I very rarely change blends or if I do I switch between one or two blends.
So what grinder you choose should be shaped by what brewing method and then what roast level you mostly brew with. For you thats espresso and what, medium to dark roast?
I have a DF83, one of the early ones, but with the SSP High Uniformity burrs that are an expensive but worth while upgrade for light to medium light roast beans. I would not recommend these burrs if you prefer a darker roast, as those flat burrs I have are the exact opposite.
The DF83 produces great results but the early DF83s do need constant care over retention as they can get blocked if you don’t. The DF83V solves a lot of the problem with my one, while still enabling a large number of suitable replacement burrs.
I would consider a similar price point conical burr grinder if you prefer mouth feel/more soupier coffee and plan on sticking with darker roasts.
Amazing. Thanks. Yes I am a dark to very dark roast kind of person which I know can cause issues with oils more than the lighter roasts.
So a conical burr is probably best for me you are saying.
Unless you are buying your beans from somewhere like Starbucks they should not be that oily that the grinder needs its burrs cleaning. If you are buying Starbucks (or similar) beans then the single biggest upgrade you can do is to start buying quality beans from a specialty roaster. Its not as hard as it was a few years ago to get dark roast from a proper specialty roaster when the fad was for almost under roasted beans, thankfully that trend is drawing to a close.
Dark roast only I would only consider conical personally. The best flat burrs for dark roast just emulate the output you getting by default from most conical burrs, so why not just get the ones made for the job in the first place?
I am not sure what your budget is but something like a Helor Flux would be similar pricing to the DF83 and the Flux comes with immense 73mm Mazzer burrs that are hard to beat for dark roast. Only downside is that its a hand grinder, and take about 45 seconds to grind an espresso sized set of beans. I hand grind both espresso and pour over when I am not at home and its manageable if you are not doing too many shots back to back.
Otherwise the bigger conicals with a motor tend to be a lot more than the DF83. I would really stay away from the Niche Zero (and its bigger brother), they are overpriced and just not good value in today’s market. I used to own a Zero and its frankly disappointing for its price point, I sold mine and made nearly enough money to buy my (secondhand) DF83 with the upgraded burrs.
Something like a Femobook A68 would be around the same price as the DF83 and is motorized. I have not personally tried it, but it has decent reviews. I quite fancy getting one as another grinder (I have a Timemore 078 as well for pour over) for home for when I want dark roast as my setup is very much tailored to light/medium-light.
My beans are bought from an independent local roaster (its actually only a few miles from my house and I go to pick them up so they dont have to ship them) Yes I agree they are just more oily than a light or medium roast and someone told me that the oils can cause issues sometimes, but that may not be the case I suppose.
I am really happy with my KinGrinder k6 for hand grinding and isnt a chore for one or two coffees, but anymore and it may well be.
I think I will look more at the conical than the flat but good to know that the flat wont be affected by the darker beans if the other features are better on a flat burr.
The Femobook might be a bit too much for me to spend, but will see.
For a slightly more manual espresso maker, I’ve had my Elektra Micro Casa a Leva for nearly 20 years now, and will probably never replace it. It’s simple enough that, of anything goes wrong, you can fix it yourself. It’s a beautiful machine, and the steamer is peerless. The boiler is capable of continuous operation of pulling shots and steaming, limited only by the amount of water in the boiler, which is fairly large. It heats in a few (5?) minutes.
It’s solidly made. The entire machine is brass and steel, with only the gaskets and the drip tray being non-metal. Oh, the lever handle grip is plastic(?), as is the grip of the portafilter it comes with; but the first thing I did was replace the portafilter with a naked portafilter with a wood handle, and I’ll eventually replace the lever handle with wood - it just screws off. It will certainly outlive me. My niece has her eye on it, when I die, and I don’t doubt it’ll last for her as well. I’ve replaced the heating element once, at its 20th anniversary, and the gaskets every year or two. There’s really nothing else to wear out.
Looks like they’re running a bit more expensive now; I paid closer to $1000 new when I got mine. The current price is a bit shocking; maybe they’re less in Europe, since they are made in Italy.
The downsides to the machine are first that the portafilter is smaller (49mm), while the standard in the US is 52(?); it makes for fewer accessory options. Second, if you do run low on water, you have to completely depressurize the boiler to add more water. There’s no reservoir. It’s literally a tank with a heating element that you fill and seal, and then pull either hot water or steam out of. So if you need to fill it, you turn it off, open the steamer, and wait until the pressure drops. It’s an inconvenience I only ever encountered when we have a house full of guests, but it is then an inconvenience.
So, aside from the eye-watering current price, it’s a fantastic machine.
Ah nice. Thanks. I did look at a similar one. I don’t mind the traditional styling. I do however have to think of my wife who loves the oracle because it is zero hassle for her. So I maybe have to go somewhere in between where if she does miss the water empty more something it isn’t a massive deal. I also thought about just getting the grinder first as then if she feels confident to do her grind and tamp herself it’s fine but if not she can continue to use the standard grinder.
She was fine with the express where she had to do everything but I think something with more of a quirk like that might be a step too far possibly.
I do however have to think of my wife who loves the oracle because it is zero hassle for her.
Oh, yeah. The a Leva of not a good option. It’s not quite as manual as pulling shots fully manually - the lever has a big spring that controls the actual pressure, but you have to charge the lever, and the common complaint in reviews on RoastMaster (back in the day) was that it requires upper body strength, and many women found it hard to work.
There’s nothing automatic about it.
I also thought about just getting the grinder first as then if she feels confident to do her grind and tamp herself it’s fine but if not she can continue to use the standard grinder.
Have you considered the DF54? It’s getting quite good reviews, and the price is reasonable.
There are a lot of good grinders out there. I like Graef a lot, but actually use a Rommelsbacher one, as in budget and feature it came handy as well as being decent enough for my needs.
Aside from the quality of the grinders and being ceramic cones and whatnot, i really needed one feature: antistatic.
I mean, i like my coffee, but i didn’t like the powder to stick on me, the cat and the surroundings. Yes, you can avoid it by spraying the beans with water before grinding, but this adds an extra nasty step to cleaning imho.
So, this might not be an advice on a brand or model, but on a feature you should consider. Anti-static is a gamechanger for me when it comes to cleaning the kitchen.
I will look at these thanks. I have had a grinder that had static before and it was a nightmare.
I am pretty proficient in being able to repair stuff, and used to repair gaggias and sage machines anyway.
Do you have an opinion on ceramic or metal and conical or flat burr at all?
I have a strong preference for conical. Taste is great and you can control how fine or coarse the result is way better than with flat burr only.
Surprisingly, i have no preference on ceramic or metal. It doesn’t impact the result to a level i could identify. I’ve been told to use ceramic because it is better, but honestly, i now have a metal one (partly due to budget) and i am happy.
Consider Flair , I’ve been happy with mine for daily espresso brews. It would work especially well with darker roast and lower temperatures (it is a struggle to get enough heat with them)
I have looked at the flair in the past as they travel okay apparently and am not really keen. They are a nice idea but not for me I’m afraid. The house machine really needs to be traditional and do milk based drinks too for my wife.
I think a Niche Zero and a Profitec GO would be an outstanding bang-for-buck combo!
One more quick option I have been considering is if there are any grinders in the price range with with grind to time or grind to weight options. Again this will simplify the process for others making espresso in the house.
Maybe experiment with the sweeteners and cream? Like honey instead of sugar. Soy instead of half and half.
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Yes
I take my coffee black and strong. No sugar or cream for me thanks. It’s really the grinder I need advice on at the moment.
Fair enough
