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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/30986085
Poor one out for all your LGBTQ+ homies in America, they’re about to be hunted for sport.
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10 friends decide to go out together for dinner. After some discussion they narrow it down to pizza or tacos, then vote. 3 choose pizza, 2 choose tacos, and 5 don’t vote because they don’t want pizza and even though they do like tacos, they don’t like the salsa at the taco place. Whose fault is it they are eatting pizza?
And that’s all anyone really needs to understand about how not voting helped Trump.
Well said.
This was a fundamental rejection of the message the Dems carried. Trotting around Liz Cheney and trying to appeal to moderate republicans while their own voterbase thought “fuck you”, you are republicans from 20 years ago. I doubt this is the lesson they will take from this.
Kamala spent her campaign shitting on the actual left and trying to appeal to Modern Republicans it didn’t work out for. This is not The fault of the actual left. Shaming people for not voting doesn’t work as we saw in this election and in 2016.
Guess it doesn’t matter though since we won’t have more elections now.
Funny, but I don’t think anyone could beat Trump. Low information voters don’t care that his term benefited from Obama’s economy or that Biden suffered from Trump’s. They just want Trump economy again.
Help divide the left vote by making memes about the left-leaning candidate
Yeah, man, great point. I mean, I was going to say that it was the campaign’s fault for prioritizing getting Republican votes over leftists votes, like when they promised to appoint Republicans to the cabinet or did campaign events with Liz Cheney and Laura Bush, that split the left from the party and made them not want to turn out. But now that I think about it, you’re right; it was devisive memes that cost her the election, not the decisions of a national political party with billions of dollars to spend. Great point, dude, great fucking point.
“Do our candidates suck in a popularity contest? No, it’s the voters who are wrong.”
We’re fucked with Trump because they think like this.
Anyone with the slightest sense of empathy or self-interest should look at Trump and think “It would behoove me keep that out of power.”
OK. Then why are you blaming the left? If it’s basic human decency to vote against Trump, why aren’t moderate Republicans Harris was campaigning for responsible for this loss? Why do you demand the left elect your politicians out of sense of empathy, even though the Democrats don’t want address the issues that are important to them, but these moderates that the entire campaign was tailored to aren’t held to the same standards? Why do you expect more decency from the people you ignore than the people you campaign for?
Simple, because those are the people it should matter to. Those are the people with the most to lose. Those are the people who are more likely to have LGBTQ+ friends and family. The moderates don’t give a shit and should never have been catered to in the first place, but these people tossed aside the people and things they claim to love in order to make a stand. That’s why I expect more from them, because they’re in a position to be more hurt by it.
I consider myself progressive and I voted for Harris, but when you say
Those are the people who are more likely to have LGBTQ+ friends and family.
I would assume some of those progressives that stayed home, just might not believe that the DNC would help them. I know it sounds crazy knowing history, but people feel how they feel. Especially when they see LGBTQ+ rights get rolled back, or companies quietly taking back pride month gear. If people look for who is fighting for them and can’t find that in a political party, they won’t vote.
We can argue that the LGBTQ+/GAZA/ or any other situation with a DNC win would be better than a trump win. But if that message isn’t getting through then the problem lies with the DNC.
Stop going after the centrist vote. They are just not that into you.
Oh, I get it now; you’re fucking entitled. You’re entitled to the progressives’ support, even if they have to support a genocide they find morally reprehensible. You’re entitled to the time they spend standing in a poll line, even if their a poor, hourly worker that’s giving up a shift to be there. You’re entitled to their vote, even if your party doesn’t earn it. Well, maybe someday you’ll also feel entitled to competent party leadership that can turn out the fucking vote.
“Wanting people who are supposedly on the Left to vote against fascism is entitlement”
Yeah, that’s about the tune that’s been played for the past year or os.
No, wanting one specific group to save you from fascism, even though you offer them nothing, is fucking entitled. You want the God damn left to show up and bail your asses out every god Damn election, but you never want to offer them a God damn thing. We don’t even have the numbers yet, so we have no fucking clue how many progressives showed up for Harris, but this sub is already filling up with folks whose first (and only) move is to punch left. The Democrats want to try to win by exclusively chasing centrists’ votes? Then go blame the fucking centrists when you lose. Or better yet, blame the party, since it’s literally their God damn job to win elections.
No, wanting one specific group that you refuse to save you from fascism, even though you offer them nothing, is fucking entitled.
That we refuse to save?
I’m sure you have a great screed ready about how both sides are the same, but considering that one side just won, you shouldn’t be bothered in the least.
You want to be pandered to, and think that’s what involvement in an election is about, not the exercise of political power by the citizenry. You had power. You did nothing with it. You stood by as fascism swept into stronger positions. And you fascist-enablers absolutely deserve a share of the blame.
Have fun with yourselves, Zentrum.
So then why didn’t Biden step down in time to have a real primary instead of ignoring issues and having the DNC run a candidate whos never won a primary delegate from voting? That would have very much helped keep Trump out of power. Or is the most powerful man in the country immune from the same critisicm you give the voters who had to take time off work to even show up?
They should’ve, yes. And yet more than half of this country did not.
I urge you to think more critically about why this happened. The margin by which we lost cannot be attributed to a few leftists making memes.
The margin lost by, along with the strong campaign run by Harris (the people complaining are the people voting Dem), and Trump’s DISASTER of a debate, makes me think nobody could have beaten Trump.
Centrists have flocked to Trump as the “strong” candidate, they’re low information, they have short memories, and they just want someone they can easily trust/blame for their economic issues.
Not only that, but trans “issues” are in Republican favor when they use scare tactics and not just a questionnaire. They went hard on that in ads because they know it works.
along with the strong campaign run by Harris
No, 2008 Obama ran a strong campaign. Inspiring voters with a message of hope and change is strong campaigning.
Going on the View and saying you would do nothing differently than Biden, when Biden was so unelectable he had to be replaced immediately before the convention and when 60% of the country thinks things are on the wrong track, is not strong campaigning.
She never differentiated herself from Biden, she ran immediately to the middle, and she campaigned with unpopular Republicans. She chose to represent the status quo and voters rejected it.
I would urge you to remember that this post itself is a meme. Of course “a few leftists making memes” isn’t the root cause, it’s just one that I personally witnessed swaying people and that particularly pisses me off.
And yes, the Dems could’ve and should’ve done better, but I would like to be able to believe that people are smart enough to not commit suicide by apathy, and I feel justified in being pissed off at those who dragged the whole country down by failing to show a little self-preservation instinct.
I feel justified in being pissed off at people whose first reaction to all of this is to blame the left. Because y’all do this after every election we lose, and learning nothing is how we go on to lose the next election.
Blame the people who voted for Trump. Think for a minute about why they did, and then think about what we can do differently next time.
Not learning is what will drag the whole country down.
Why do that when we can blame nebulous leftist memes they 0.005% of voters saw? Obviously that’s the cause of a massive failure of messaging and policy making.
You know what the difference between Harris and Trump is? The difference is that the right actually likes their guy. And when the base likes their guy, that excitement resonates with voters.
Running a milquetoast candidate that nobody actually likes didn’t work in 2016. We barely got away with it in 2020, but it should never have been so close. And now that it isn’t working this year, should we try to actually learn a lesson here, or would you rather just keep blaming the left for everything?
Do you want to just do the same thing and expect different results in 2028?
You don’t actually think you’re getting another election in '28, do you? Because I don’t think you will.
I find it amazing that no one seems to have any sense of… well, really, fucking anything anymore. Self-preservation, empathy, pragmatism, whatever. It amazes me that people can sit by and let the place burn around them, and then turn around and say, “Hey, maybe you should’ve made me want to save myself and my neighbors.”
Its so very pragmatic to turn on South American and Muslim voters, look at how well we did with that strategy /s
I am just as horrified as you are that more than half the country got excited about a man who’s actively aiming to destroy it. But you are blaming the wrong people.
The question I am asking you is, what lesson will you learn from this? If pointing fingers at the left is all you can do, we will lose 2028 too.
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Democrats have to cater to like three different and mostly separate agendas to win. Republicans only have to cater to one. I think the problem is we’ve been expecting Dems to pull off what is essentially impossible.
No they don’t, that’s just lies the Dems keep repeating.
Progressive issues are overwhelmingly popular in the U.S. Exit interviews and polling shows that in the key swing states, ignoring progressive issues is what made voters dissatisfied with Harris. If they had let Harris run a progressive campaign, I think it is very likely they could have won.
The only two agendas the Dems are pulled between are the agendas of their corporate donors who don’t care if they win, and a progressive agenda that could actually win them elections. They overwhelmingly choose their corporate donors every time, and then hope progressives will keep them in office because they have no other choice.
“Give us better standards of living so people don’t consider fascism as the solution to any and every problem.”
Instead we got her being Dick Cheney’s friend and wanting Republicans in the cabinet. And people saw someone catering to Republicans and went “I guess I’ll vote for Republican”.
Fucking insane people are blaming voters and not the Dem candidate who spent most of her time talking about how she’s for things we called fascist and evil 4 years ago…
But we all knew regardless of what happened one thing would never change:
“Moderates” would blame progressives and say this proves the Dem party needs to be more conservative.
It doesn’t fucking work, stop insisting “lesser of two evils” will ever be a valid campaign strategy when the “greater evil” isn’t currently in office.
Should it work? Sure, it should.
But it fucking doesn’t so why do we keep trying it?
The donor class is why. The US is ruled by corporations and billionaires. The entire capital class threw their weight behind trump… money rules everything so the Dems need to Pander to the rich and corpos.
They didn’t just pay trump
They paid the only other option too, knowing that what she would have to do for the money helped Trump’s chances more than donating to him directly would.
Kamala and the DNC were obsessed with raising money, but none of them know how to spend it to get votes.
They got blinded by the dollar signs and we’re all fucked. Doubly so if we don’t use the next four years to plan for 2028. If current DNC leadership won’t step down for a new direction it’s time to start a new party
Exactly the rich donate to both sides to get a seat at the table and steer the conversation. Money is so important that the rich get to dictate the direction, else the money dries up.
But she lost the popular vote… from a convicted felon adjudicated rapist… I still can’t…
Ah the progressive vote, never big enough to change a single policy for, just big enough to scapegoat all of their errors onto.
Look at exit polling and progressives are the most reliable Dem voting block…
Where you’re confused is that progressive policy also gets traditional non voters out to the polls.
So if someone only ever looks at the surface and doesn’t really understand American politics, I can understand why they’d conflate that with progressives never voting.
But that’s not what it is.
Look at 08 Obama, or even 92 Clinton.
We know what works, the DNC just refuses to let a candidate like that into the general.
Clinton repealed glass-steagall setting the stage for the meltdown of 08 and what happened since (the exponential growth of the billionaire class) eventually leading to trump.
Obama made fun of a vindictive litte narcissist causing him to decide then and there to run for office. And did not nearly do enough with his wave of support, he was a true democrat… slow as fuck.
And then Biden, anemic response to the exponential rise of fascism under his watch… his legacy will be letting trump take over and not putting the boot on the project 2025 crowd.
I feel sorry for the 60 million Americans that voted against trump, but they need to realize they are surrounded by fascists and people that think it’s not important that their country is turning fascist… Same as in Germany in the interbellum.
Compare the occupation of Crimea to the Anschluss and the war in Ukraine like the split of Poland, china showing their muscles in asia and the state of the world is worrying… It feels like I was taught about this in school.
Like I said in the other reply:
In 1992 he was a young charismatic politician running on a progressive platform.
How he disappointed people while in office is important, but not really relevant when we’re just talking about how to win an election.
The topic currently is how a Dem can win an election.
While it would be best to have an authentic progressive, at least one smart enough to lie (like Obama and Bill) would have beat trump.
True… I also think that Dems should be hammering their victories more. It’s like they fail in public and their successes happen in the shadows.
"Look, the financials for all normal people are shit, the whole world has had massive inflation, we had less than the rest of the world, and if we had not had to clean up trumps shit and massive debts, it would have been even better. Meanwhile the rich got richer by firing you or your family members, refusing proper pay bumps, outsourcing your jobs and gouging you on prices while making record profits. We are mad too, at the republicans and their tax cuts for their mega donors, at the corporations for treating you unfairly while stealing from you… Point your anger at them…
You deserve a living wage, deserve to not worry about your health or going bankrupt by seeing a doctor, you deserve good and affordable housing and clean drinking water. We will tax the ultra wealthy and make them pay their fair share, stop their tax dodging and shady constructions. And we will show them they are not above the law.
Are you calling Bill Clinton a progressive? He’s the one that really put the DNC on their fast track to the right. he was playing from the same playbook as Tony Blair. He won in 92 because HW Bush reneged hard on his 88 campaign slogan of “No New Taxes”
In 1992 he was a young charismatic politician running on a progressive platform.
How he disappointed people while in office is important, but not really relevant when we’re just talking about how to win an election.
