I agree that Donald Trump is much worse for the situation in Palestine and that it was a mistake for anybody to sit out because of what’s happening. But I think it also needs to be said that the Democrats didn’t really offer any alternative besides plausible deniability, and so it seems strange to me to pin the responsibility on the disengaged
He’s been finishing the job just fine under Biden. I’ve gotten to the point where I can’t honestly see what the difference is(in this particular issue). There was a time where wholesale annihilation and annexation was unacceptable but since that’s cool can you point me to where exactly you think the Dems red line exists? Because it certainly seems to be beyond the ethnic cleansing of Gaza.
The difference is that Biden has not once come out to say “i will help neyyanahu flatten Gaza” and from what I’ve read has been criticising him (to the best of his old man abilities).
It sucks that U.S. kept sending weapons to Israel for one reason or another, but the key difference here is that with a democratic president you had a higher chance of getting thru.
Good luck getting Trump to listen to anything at all. And I guess good job for letting Trump take the president seat, not only will he help flatten Gaza (which Biden seemingly was doing anyway), but will also flatten women’s rights in the U.S., will flatten healthcare and education, will flatten any climate change progress, and will let Russia flatten Ukraine.
An astounding failure for the entire world, just because your only issue was “b-but think of Gaza!”
I hope you’re happy with your moral high ground because you decided to not vote for Genocide Kamala and instead let Destroy Everyone Trump win.
To the best of his abilities my ass. Reflexively excusing his continued total support for Israel even after the election is delusional. It’s pretty obvious that you had no chance of getting any different result from a Democrat on this issue than a Republican.
And getting mad at me about it is kind of pointless, as I live in Maryland’s sixth and my vote for a Democrat house member is the only national vote that mattered (and in this case it really did matter). Despite that I did end up voting for Harris. Maybe you should get mad at the Dems morally bankrupt leadership instead of me.
I will get mad at the 15 million stay-at-home non-voters due to a single-issue before i consider getting mad at the Dems for not caressing these people on their single-issue.
I will get mad at the 15 million who never learned of the phrase “Lesser of two evils”, who thought that by not voting they are making some sort of brave statement on morals.
Suck it up, there were 2 choices:
Genocide, with high chance of progress away from Genocide
Genocide with bonus destruction, and no chance of steering away from any of it
It’s literally the trolley problem, and people that didn’t vote just didn’t pull the lever and have let mass destruction happen.
Your continued apologizing for genocide as the lesser of two evils after the election is as morally bankrupt as the Dem leadership that tried to sacrifice gazan lives for the Republican vote. And look at how well that worked out for them.
I am not apologizing genocide, I am simply criticising people that voted for Genocide + More by not going to vote at all.
The morally right choice was to reduce harm as much as possible, and that was only viable if voting with Kamala. By otherwise not voting or going independent (In a place like U.S. where an independent vote is basically a waste), you’re just letting the fascism push more.
But again, these people can at least sleep easier at night knowing they didn’t vote for anyone doing genocide. They simply facilitated genocide + everything bad to seep through and win.
Trying to only blame the dems for the civic duty failure of 15 million people is insane in my opinion. In other countries you just vote with the candidate you like the most, even if they won’t see eye to eye with you on some issues, it’s not some “oh I will only vote if these candidates win me over!”. You either vote because you agree with someone ideologically, or you vote because there’s Hitler on the ballot and Jesus Christ you do not want Hitler to win, even if the candidate you voted for will only give Israel more weapons. Otherwise you let Hitler win and now there are two genocides occuring instead of just one.
No, you’re apologizing by drawing a fucking distinction for the Dems that does not exist. It just doesn’t. I’ll refer you to my original point: where is the red line for the Dems on Gaza?
I guess sending weapons permits a level of discussion with an otherwise insane lunatic. Trump won’t give a shit about the discussion.
Now I ask you, how many ongoing genocides are enough? Because the people that didn’t vote are probably on the side of “Hey, Palestine isn’t enough! Ukraine should get some aswell! And former USSR countries in the future!”
Thank you for voting Harris, you just need to understand the 15 million are idiots for not expressing one of the most essential opinions whatsoever
If I was an American I would have voted Kamala simply because TRUMP is Much. Much. Much. MUCH FUCKING WORSE FOR LITERALLY EVERYONE. NOT JUST GAZA.
I don’t know, at the end of the day, when you vote for a president first and foremost should be your own interests before any foreign politics. Making sure your rights are intact so you can discuss foreign issues afterwards.
It’s like airplane oxygen masks: Put on your own mask before helping others. The non-voters/independents have frsntically tried to help others first, failed miserably and fainted in the process, slowing everyone around down.
But I am sure the children in Gaza will be grateful you let Trump win because he is such a sweetheart with children :P
Read the fucking room and realise the safety of more people is at risk now, not just Gaza.
Trust me if I was American I would have voted Harris, but fate made it so I am not.
Don’t yell at me for yelling at the same dipshits that didn’t vote Harris, and don’t criticise me for bringing up other issues when it’s relevant to make it clear one choice is worse than the other.
Take a minute to read that headline again. You got Trump for this now, because you insisted to everyone to accept that headline, those deaths, that ‘better than this’ just isnt an option. You wouldnt permit people that care about life, that oppose genocide somewhere else to go. So they went nowhere, because genocide is not an option.
And yet accelerated genocide is the option that was chosen.
Look, I get the argument you’re making. The problem is that it hinges entirely on accepting a premise that isn’t based in reality. Progress, specifically as it relates to harm reduction, doesn’t happen instantaneously. It never has. You take the wins you can get and then push for the next step. You can be mad about that, and I would argue that we all should be, but it’s not going to change the way things work. In this case you’ve let idealism get in the way of actual tangible improvement. Even if you disagree with that characterization you can’t dispute the fact that you’ve at least helped shut the door on the potential for improvement. If you can find a way to rationalize that in your head to make you feel like the good guy then I understand why you would want to take that path, but do you honestly believe the people of Gaza take solace in the fact that you had good intentions? I’d wager they don’t give a shit how you frame this in your mind. They’re just thinking about what a Trump presidency means for the future of this conflict and that isn’t good by any stretch of the imagination.
This is deranged. Progress? Improvement? What did Kamala say she would do differently? Did she say she’d stop sending weapons and financial assistance?
Netanyahu was filibustering the peace process hoping for Trump to win while he ran out the clock. If he, like Putin, were forced to deal with Harris instead of Trump over the next four years his attitude would’ve changed after the results were announced.
Filibuster? Man that asshole doesnt have a filibuster, he has absolutely zero authority over whether or not we send him weapons and financial assistance.
Why would his attitude have to change with Harris vs his current attitude with Biden? Did she say she was gonna stop sending weapons and money? She was pretty adamant about being a continuation of Biden as far as I saw
Why would his attitude have to change with Harris vs his current attitude with Biden?
Because Biden and Harris and various other Democrats wanted peace and were genuinely concerned about the people in the region caught up in the conflict. Trump gives absolutely no shits about any of it and neither do Republicans who will allocate the funds because that’s how our government works.
Because Biden and Harris and various other Democrats wanted peace and were genuinely concerned about the people in the region caught up in the conflict.
Oh they were sending the genocidal nation a ridiculous amount of bombs and missiles for peace. Makes sense.
No, they were trying to have peace talks with Netanyahu for peace.
Netanyahu was able to successfully run the clock out on them, and now they have close to zero leverage because even if Biden single-handedly impounded the funds for Israeli aide, they still have plenty of powder left to blow through and Trump will resume the flow of aide in two months.
What did Kamala say she would do differently?
You cant keep talking about progress and improvement without any signs of either. The only potential for improvement we have is a progressive candidate
I believe she would have been marginally better than Biden but, as you continuously refuse to acknowledge because it completely defeats the point you are trying to make, that is not what we’re discussing here. Trump is indisputably going to be worse than either of them and that’s what you have chosen to support through inaction. You can talk in circles around that fact as much as you like but it won’t change reality.
You were the one that brought up progress and improvement. But those words have meanings, and its not keeping things the same. Things are currently unacceptable for a lot of people, and everyone here told them to hush up about demanding better. And so they hushed up and stayed home.
And I guess you not voting dems totally did anything fucking productive for the cause.
You are an idiot. You are a self-centered moron for laser-focusing on a single issue and nothing else. Your moral choice has failed not only you, but everyone else aswell.
And now everyone has to pay for America’s dumbfuckery. Not just Gaza.
Your bloody avoidance for voting anyone has led not only to Gaza getting flattened, but also women’s rights, lgbt rights, any form of medical care, Ukraine, and the climate.
The blood is on your fucking hands now. At least Kamala would have seen reason and you could probably have talked to her/her party about Israel.
Good luck with fucking ignorant Trump, who won’t even listen when a woman says no to him.
But thank God you didn’t vote for anyone doing genocide! I will feel so relieved you did that when Russia has a border with my fucking country
Since when are democrats the ones pushing abortion bans? Since when are they the ones wanting to withdraw from the Paris Climate Accord? Since when are blue states the ones banning books that contain any mention of queer people?
From my knowledge blue states have been doing anything but those things. It’s red states that are doing all sorts of shady shit, and it’s Trump literally saying he will:
-Withdraw the U.S. from the Climate Accord
-Appoint RFK as head of medicine
-Get rid of education department
-Withdraw spending in Ukraine and talk to his lover Putin
-Increase tariffs on EU which in turn will just hurt U.S. economy
you can blabber all day about how democrats are doing X Y Z wrong, but Trump is doing all of that PLUS more and way worse. No one likes this man, not even his own party members.
But I guess the best way to deal with a truck about to hit you is to close your eyes and hope for the best
The American education system has failed you. I’m assuming by “a progressive candidate” in this case you mean a third party, but in a first-past-the-post voting system, voting third-party is a protest vote. At best, people voting third-party shows that voters don’t have confidence in the major parties, but at worst it helps your least preferred of the two major parties win the election because you’re not begrudgingly voting for the candidate you hate less. A third-party president is an unimaginable upset.
But if you’re not living in a swing state nobody cares how you vote for president anyway. Hopefully you got a good option for Congress in the primaries. That’s the only thing I had any chance of influencing at a federal level for this election cycle. I’m not in a swing state and in the final election I only got one option for senate and all one candidate could say was that they weren’t the other candidate.
None of this is news to me, i know how shit FPTP is and thats why i support getting rid of it. While everyone else that hates it for some reason insists on keeping it.
I don’t think you understand. This election wasn’t about expressing your moral superiority by not voting for Genocider A or Double Genocider B
This election was about preventing Double Genocider B from winning. You could only do that by voting Genocide A and sucking up the morally fucked choice. You failed, miserably. Had you voted for A, in 4 years you would have had the chance to happily vote for any third fourth or fifth party your heart desired. Good luck with that now when Trump brcomes God King.
Good fucking job on wasting your vote away and letting both Ukraine and Palestine get fucked. And the climate.
because Donald “I will let Netyanahu finish the job” Trump is somehow better for this. Get your head out of your ass lol
I agree that Donald Trump is much worse for the situation in Palestine and that it was a mistake for anybody to sit out because of what’s happening. But I think it also needs to be said that the Democrats didn’t really offer any alternative besides plausible deniability, and so it seems strange to me to pin the responsibility on the disengaged
He’s been finishing the job just fine under Biden. I’ve gotten to the point where I can’t honestly see what the difference is(in this particular issue). There was a time where wholesale annihilation and annexation was unacceptable but since that’s cool can you point me to where exactly you think the Dems red line exists? Because it certainly seems to be beyond the ethnic cleansing of Gaza.
The difference is that Biden has not once come out to say “i will help neyyanahu flatten Gaza” and from what I’ve read has been criticising him (to the best of his old man abilities).
It sucks that U.S. kept sending weapons to Israel for one reason or another, but the key difference here is that with a democratic president you had a higher chance of getting thru.
Good luck getting Trump to listen to anything at all. And I guess good job for letting Trump take the president seat, not only will he help flatten Gaza (which Biden seemingly was doing anyway), but will also flatten women’s rights in the U.S., will flatten healthcare and education, will flatten any climate change progress, and will let Russia flatten Ukraine. An astounding failure for the entire world, just because your only issue was “b-but think of Gaza!”
I hope you’re happy with your moral high ground because you decided to not vote for Genocide Kamala and instead let Destroy Everyone Trump win.
There have been such astounding things said with a straight face this year.
Oh wow, you literally picked and chose.
To the best of his abilities my ass. Reflexively excusing his continued total support for Israel even after the election is delusional. It’s pretty obvious that you had no chance of getting any different result from a Democrat on this issue than a Republican.
And getting mad at me about it is kind of pointless, as I live in Maryland’s sixth and my vote for a Democrat house member is the only national vote that mattered (and in this case it really did matter). Despite that I did end up voting for Harris. Maybe you should get mad at the Dems morally bankrupt leadership instead of me.
I will get mad at the 15 million stay-at-home non-voters due to a single-issue before i consider getting mad at the Dems for not caressing these people on their single-issue.
I will get mad at the 15 million who never learned of the phrase “Lesser of two evils”, who thought that by not voting they are making some sort of brave statement on morals.
Suck it up, there were 2 choices: Genocide, with high chance of progress away from Genocide Genocide with bonus destruction, and no chance of steering away from any of it
It’s literally the trolley problem, and people that didn’t vote just didn’t pull the lever and have let mass destruction happen.
Your continued apologizing for genocide as the lesser of two evils after the election is as morally bankrupt as the Dem leadership that tried to sacrifice gazan lives for the Republican vote. And look at how well that worked out for them.
I am not apologizing genocide, I am simply criticising people that voted for Genocide + More by not going to vote at all.
The morally right choice was to reduce harm as much as possible, and that was only viable if voting with Kamala. By otherwise not voting or going independent (In a place like U.S. where an independent vote is basically a waste), you’re just letting the fascism push more.
But again, these people can at least sleep easier at night knowing they didn’t vote for anyone doing genocide. They simply facilitated genocide + everything bad to seep through and win.
Trying to only blame the dems for the civic duty failure of 15 million people is insane in my opinion. In other countries you just vote with the candidate you like the most, even if they won’t see eye to eye with you on some issues, it’s not some “oh I will only vote if these candidates win me over!”. You either vote because you agree with someone ideologically, or you vote because there’s Hitler on the ballot and Jesus Christ you do not want Hitler to win, even if the candidate you voted for will only give Israel more weapons. Otherwise you let Hitler win and now there are two genocides occuring instead of just one.
No, you’re apologizing by drawing a fucking distinction for the Dems that does not exist. It just doesn’t. I’ll refer you to my original point: where is the red line for the Dems on Gaza?
I guess sending weapons permits a level of discussion with an otherwise insane lunatic. Trump won’t give a shit about the discussion.
Now I ask you, how many ongoing genocides are enough? Because the people that didn’t vote are probably on the side of “Hey, Palestine isn’t enough! Ukraine should get some aswell! And former USSR countries in the future!”
Thank you for voting Harris, you just need to understand the 15 million are idiots for not expressing one of the most essential opinions whatsoever
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Wrong! Not American! Also not a fucking moron!
If I was an American I would have voted Kamala simply because TRUMP is Much. Much. Much. MUCH FUCKING WORSE FOR LITERALLY EVERYONE. NOT JUST GAZA.
I don’t know, at the end of the day, when you vote for a president first and foremost should be your own interests before any foreign politics. Making sure your rights are intact so you can discuss foreign issues afterwards.
It’s like airplane oxygen masks: Put on your own mask before helping others. The non-voters/independents have frsntically tried to help others first, failed miserably and fainted in the process, slowing everyone around down.
But I am sure the children in Gaza will be grateful you let Trump win because he is such a sweetheart with children :P
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Read the fucking room and realise the safety of more people is at risk now, not just Gaza.
Trust me if I was American I would have voted Harris, but fate made it so I am not.
Don’t yell at me for yelling at the same dipshits that didn’t vote Harris, and don’t criticise me for bringing up other issues when it’s relevant to make it clear one choice is worse than the other.
You are a fucking moron if you think for one second I am american.
I am from Europe. I made it very clear when I said in one of my comments I am excited for russia to border me. I didn’t do shit
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Take a minute to read that headline again. You got Trump for this now, because you insisted to everyone to accept that headline, those deaths, that ‘better than this’ just isnt an option. You wouldnt permit people that care about life, that oppose genocide somewhere else to go. So they went nowhere, because genocide is not an option.
And yet accelerated genocide is the option that was chosen.
Look, I get the argument you’re making. The problem is that it hinges entirely on accepting a premise that isn’t based in reality. Progress, specifically as it relates to harm reduction, doesn’t happen instantaneously. It never has. You take the wins you can get and then push for the next step. You can be mad about that, and I would argue that we all should be, but it’s not going to change the way things work. In this case you’ve let idealism get in the way of actual tangible improvement. Even if you disagree with that characterization you can’t dispute the fact that you’ve at least helped shut the door on the potential for improvement. If you can find a way to rationalize that in your head to make you feel like the good guy then I understand why you would want to take that path, but do you honestly believe the people of Gaza take solace in the fact that you had good intentions? I’d wager they don’t give a shit how you frame this in your mind. They’re just thinking about what a Trump presidency means for the future of this conflict and that isn’t good by any stretch of the imagination.
This is deranged. Progress? Improvement? What did Kamala say she would do differently? Did she say she’d stop sending weapons and financial assistance?
Netanyahu was filibustering the peace process hoping for Trump to win while he ran out the clock. If he, like Putin, were forced to deal with Harris instead of Trump over the next four years his attitude would’ve changed after the results were announced.
Filibuster? Man that asshole doesnt have a filibuster, he has absolutely zero authority over whether or not we send him weapons and financial assistance.
Why would his attitude have to change with Harris vs his current attitude with Biden? Did she say she was gonna stop sending weapons and money? She was pretty adamant about being a continuation of Biden as far as I saw
Because Biden and Harris and various other Democrats wanted peace and were genuinely concerned about the people in the region caught up in the conflict. Trump gives absolutely no shits about any of it and neither do Republicans who will allocate the funds because that’s how our government works.
Oh they were sending the genocidal nation a ridiculous amount of bombs and missiles for peace. Makes sense.
No, they were trying to have peace talks with Netanyahu for peace.
Netanyahu was able to successfully run the clock out on them, and now they have close to zero leverage because even if Biden single-handedly impounded the funds for Israeli aide, they still have plenty of powder left to blow through and Trump will resume the flow of aide in two months.
What did Kamala say she would do differently? You cant keep talking about progress and improvement without any signs of either. The only potential for improvement we have is a progressive candidate
I believe she would have been marginally better than Biden but, as you continuously refuse to acknowledge because it completely defeats the point you are trying to make, that is not what we’re discussing here. Trump is indisputably going to be worse than either of them and that’s what you have chosen to support through inaction. You can talk in circles around that fact as much as you like but it won’t change reality.
You were the one that brought up progress and improvement. But those words have meanings, and its not keeping things the same. Things are currently unacceptable for a lot of people, and everyone here told them to hush up about demanding better. And so they hushed up and stayed home.
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Yes it is. It’s the one you got. Congrats on maintaining your ideological purity. It’s going to be quite a show.
The ideological purity of
checks notes
Thanks we will take it.
Which got you
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More genocide.
It was more genocide with Kamala. Genocide is not an option.
Dude, you just have problems.
Enjoy your super-genocide.
super genocide he says. Damn they just called what Hitler did regular genocide.
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And I guess you not voting dems totally did anything fucking productive for the cause.
You are an idiot. You are a self-centered moron for laser-focusing on a single issue and nothing else. Your moral choice has failed not only you, but everyone else aswell.
And now everyone has to pay for America’s dumbfuckery. Not just Gaza.
Also not endorsed by people with the red line.
The genocide thing really is not the gotcha you think it is.
I dont know what ‘yes it is’ is in response to.
Your bloody avoidance for voting anyone has led not only to Gaza getting flattened, but also women’s rights, lgbt rights, any form of medical care, Ukraine, and the climate.
The blood is on your fucking hands now. At least Kamala would have seen reason and you could probably have talked to her/her party about Israel.
Good luck with fucking ignorant Trump, who won’t even listen when a woman says no to him.
But thank God you didn’t vote for anyone doing genocide! I will feel so relieved you did that when Russia has a border with my fucking country
You are describing things that have already happened, are current events, all under democrats, and them promising more of the same.
I did vote, for the candidate that opposes the genocide.
Since when are democrats the ones pushing abortion bans? Since when are they the ones wanting to withdraw from the Paris Climate Accord? Since when are blue states the ones banning books that contain any mention of queer people?
From my knowledge blue states have been doing anything but those things. It’s red states that are doing all sorts of shady shit, and it’s Trump literally saying he will: -Withdraw the U.S. from the Climate Accord -Appoint RFK as head of medicine -Get rid of education department -Withdraw spending in Ukraine and talk to his lover Putin -Increase tariffs on EU which in turn will just hurt U.S. economy
you can blabber all day about how democrats are doing X Y Z wrong, but Trump is doing all of that PLUS more and way worse. No one likes this man, not even his own party members.
But I guess the best way to deal with a truck about to hit you is to close your eyes and hope for the best
Roe got overturned. Climate change is continuing to accelerate and democrats did a lot to make that happen, thats a long discussion though.
Again, I voted. I dont care that you think that a vote for a progressive candidate doesnt count, i took action.
The American education system has failed you. I’m assuming by “a progressive candidate” in this case you mean a third party, but in a first-past-the-post voting system, voting third-party is a protest vote. At best, people voting third-party shows that voters don’t have confidence in the major parties, but at worst it helps your least preferred of the two major parties win the election because you’re not begrudgingly voting for the candidate you hate less. A third-party president is an unimaginable upset.
But if you’re not living in a swing state nobody cares how you vote for president anyway. Hopefully you got a good option for Congress in the primaries. That’s the only thing I had any chance of influencing at a federal level for this election cycle. I’m not in a swing state and in the final election I only got one option for senate and all one candidate could say was that they weren’t the other candidate.
None of this is news to me, i know how shit FPTP is and thats why i support getting rid of it. While everyone else that hates it for some reason insists on keeping it.
I don’t think you understand. This election wasn’t about expressing your moral superiority by not voting for Genocider A or Double Genocider B
This election was about preventing Double Genocider B from winning. You could only do that by voting Genocide A and sucking up the morally fucked choice. You failed, miserably. Had you voted for A, in 4 years you would have had the chance to happily vote for any third fourth or fifth party your heart desired. Good luck with that now when Trump brcomes God King.
Good fucking job on wasting your vote away and letting both Ukraine and Palestine get fucked. And the climate.
You are a fucking imbecile
For me, the election was about preventing genocide. Again, it is not an option for me.
I get told this every 4 years. Its always next election.
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