I mean have they seen how good Ice Cubes and Mlem look? How can they choose the default Twitter and Reddit apps over those masterpieces.

  • OpenStars@piefed.social
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    21 hours ago

    “Can I see everything across Lemmy, or will I be getting a fragmented experience?”.

    This is 100% a huge concern for Mastodon. But for Lemmy isn’t that figure closer to like 1%?

    People who don’t even know what things like “Beehaw” or “Hexbear” or “Lemmygrad” are, aren’t going to be put out so much that access to them is barred.

    Lemmy.World has ~80% of all Lemmy users last I checked though I expect that will radically shift in the next couple of months (due to their policy change announcement yesterday). Like it or not, Lemmy is far more centralized than other Fediverse offerings like Mastodon, PeerTube, and I would presume Friendica.

    Also, doesn’t Mastodon still lack an All feed? In contrast, the default sort option of https://discuss.online/ is to show All, so how is this really all that fragmented? The default sort option for lemmy.ml is Local, so without pressing any buttons the fragmentation effect is far greater there - they will see no posts to communities like [email protected] or [email protected] or anywhere else until they start poking around to see how the software works. But even there, unlike Mastodon (at least historically), pressing one button will instantly show the majority of the Fediverse content (well… minus everyone who got banned from that instance, which actually… is quite a lot).

    Am I missing something though: what are users worried about in terms of fragmentation that applies to Lemmy? (That is actually true I mean, bc from what I can see, while it’s true for other Fediverse offerings, it’s not for Lemmy?)

    • Blaze (he/him)@feddit.org
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      19 hours ago

      Lemmy.World has ~80% of all Lemmy users last I checked though I expect that will radically shift in the next couple of months (due to their policy change announcement yesterday). Like it or not, Lemmy is far more centralized than other Fediverse offerings like Mastodon, PeerTube, and I would presume Friendica.

      15667/41874 = 37% of Lemmy monthly active users on LW: https://fedidb.org/software/lemmy/

      256908/777047 = 33% of Mastodon monthly active users on Mastodon.social: https://fedidb.org/software/mastodon/

    • blackn1ght@feddit.uk
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      21 hours ago

      Am I missing something though: what are users worried about in terms of fragmentation that applies to Lemmy?

      I think it’s that they don’t know ANYTHING about it, other than it’s a bunch of different servers that seem to operate independently. So they have no idea how the whole thing operates. I’ve been on Lemmy for about 18 months and I don’t know how the federation works for Mastodon or Friendica - I actually looked up Friendica the other day but just gave up after looking at the list of instances. I don’t know what it means to use a specific instance for Friendica, even though I know what it means for Lemmy. These people won’t know what it means at all.

      • OpenStars@piefed.social
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        20 hours ago

        Oh okay. Though you said “I do wonder whether instances should be scored by a few factors and recommended that way?”, and wanted to point out that Blaze has already done that work, which culminated in the list of those instances (discuss.online and sopuli.xyz). It’s just that there are only a few instances (~20) that are most highly worth mentioning to someone who refuses to engage in such technical details, and beyond Lemmy.World that compromises ~80% of all users on Lemmy, everything else combined is part of that remaining 20% anyway.

        So this list of two instances to check out is a highly optimized, extremely streamlined statement crafted to help people avoid exactly what you are referring to in analysis paralysis. Though perhaps a statement could be added that Lemmy specifically, unlike other Fediverse offerings, does not need to worry as much about the fragmentation effect?

        The really cool thing about that list is that you can simply click and immediately get to browsing the entire Threadiverse (minus Threads:-P). You don’t even need an account, and so to lurk this is all you need to know to get started. After that, if someone wanted to join an instance other than these, then yeah your list recommendation would help, but also keep in mind that it would need to be maintained as well as made in the first place, and then people made aware of where to go to view it, the latter of which imho is the chief problem since admins mostly refuse to update the sidebar text even to point to entire communities dedicated to discussing such matters, like e.g. [email protected]. But if you are interested in making such a list btw, I’m saying just in case, that is a great community to post it to for a start.

        Edit: I’ve often thought about making such a post with such a list, but (a) Blaze has already done it in the past, (b) it would keep changing e.g. Lemmy.World’s huge announcement yesterday, and © I’m legit not certain what the point is really, bc most people (except those of us who discuss such matters inside of the Fediverse:-) don’t seem to care so much about such details. The chief barriers to people joining seem to be: (a) where content at (we simply don’t have the sheer amounts that especially Reddit does); and factors like “there be tankies there” or “I needz my free speech” (aka I’m a MAGAT and I would prefer Truth Social). In that regard, Lemmy.World’s announcement might actually help bring more centrists here, rather than them being turned away by interaction with a power mod, though I leave it to others to judge if that will be a good thing or not.

        • blackn1ght@feddit.uk
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          1 hour ago

          Oh okay. Though you said “I do wonder whether instances should be scored by a few factors and recommended that way?”, and wanted to point out that Blaze has already done that work, which culminated in the list of those instances (discuss.online and sopuli.xyz)

          Yeah fair enough, I didn’t know [email protected] had done that before I commented. My only feedback is that I don’t think they need to be categorised as “for Americans” and “for Europeans” - more like “here’s a couple of great, healthy general purpose instances to get your feet wet in Lemmy - don’t worry, you’re not restricted to just those servers, you can vote, comment and subscribe to communities across Lemmy!”

          Whilst we’re on this topic of “sign-up friction” - here’s a good example of some struggles that “regular” people face - it’s about Pixelfed but I think the same logic applies:

          Just installed it, clicked “Login” and I have to pick a server? Why do these new apps trying to replace Insta/Twitter/etc all have this without an explanation for people who don’t know what they’re selecting?

          Does it matter what you pick? Are you “locked in” to a server? Do you only see the posts of people within the same server? Does everyone else see what server I choose? Can the servers shut down, leaving users stranded?

          There needs to be a better intro for these decentralized services if they want more people to adopt. 99% of us want to click Sign Up, make a username/password and be in. Adding extra steps creates frustration which leads to just not finishing signup and loading up Instagram instead.

          https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1i0m5ub/meta_is_blocking_links_to_decentralized_instagram/m70et23/

          • Blaze (he/him)@feddit.org
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            37 minutes ago

            My only feedback is that I don’t think they need to be categorised as “for Americans” and “for Europeans”

            On top of the latency issues, privacy laws and regulations are different between the US and Europe. Also, a lot of LW users were surprised to learn than LW is European managed and hosted during the whole jury nullification LW ToS discussion, so I prefer to make it a clear statement from the start.

          • OpenStars@piefed.social
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            17 hours ago

            Wow, that dropped FAST! I expected it to fall, but not by that much, and definitely not that quickly. Total MAUs also down from 43 to 41.9k. Hopefully someone has time to offer a post showing how the trends have changed recently.

            In particular I started to notice it drop perhaps a month ago but wondered how “real” the effect was, vs. some kind of measuring glitch. Although the sidebar and other monitoring tools (the Datadog link in it) seems to support all of it.

            At a guess, it could be a combination of many factors from the super old software that continues to fall further behind (0.19.13 vs. 0.19.18 already) to all the drama that continually spills forth from there. People, particularly non-technical ones, have a resistance to moving, but once that resistance is overcome…

            I guess congratulations, you almost single-handedly helped make the Threadiverse (or whatever we are calling ourselves) more decentralized! 🎉🥳👏