By Lucas Powers · CBC News
Sales tax uniformly applies to everyone by the same absolute amount but relatively affects poorer people more. The city should just raise property taxes instead. May help reduce the housing cost as well which would make the city more affordable.
Also considering TO has one of (the?) lowest property tax rates in Ontario it seems like a no-brainer to me.
Exactly. If anything we need to catch up to make sure all of us home owners pay our fair share.
I agree. Or rather, I think a sales tax actually hits the less wealthy more in absolute terms than the wealthy as most of the big things they’re buying aren’t bought within the city.
Property tax on the other hand, scales very closely with how wealthy you are. I know some people will complain (or rather a lot of people) that property tax is already expensive and an increase of even 0.5% would make it almost impossible to pay all their bills including their mortgage, but to that I say that if your finances are that tight, either you’re already spending above your means, or you’re pretty bad at managing your money.
Solely relying on property tax increases isn’t sustainable. The city is considering increases here too, but it needs further revenues. Deputy Mayor Jennifer McKelvie stated,
the revenue tools currently available to us will not fill the void alone. It is not sustainable to continue using property taxes to fund provincial and federal responsibilities
Along with further revenue tools, she feels the city needs more direct funding from both the province and the feds.
Yeah but it is literally the biggest thing we should do as mentioned by the report that would address almost 40% of the problem. I’m not sure why are we are debating that we shouldn’t do this considering that property tax rates are 3x lower in GTA than everywhere else in Ontario, and that it fixes a large part of the problem.
Basically, before we take the initial, and most impactful step that is uncomfortable but necessary, we are proposing future things to do that is less painful sounding but doesn’t have clear returns. We all know why: people don’t want to pay more and want to make it someone else’s problem instead. Even the report acknowledges this political challenge. This conversation is basically the evidence for that.
I’m not sure why you see it as either/or. They are speaking of the need to not only raise property taxes, but also to implement new revenue measures. The article gave a link to where this is all outlined: https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2023/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-238626.pdf
Important stuff like basic groceries are exempt. Also, there is a tax rebate for those of lower incomes, so its affect is primarily on those who have greater wealth. What’s being discussed is a one percent addition; hence, a penny from moneyed spendthrifts for integrity of services within the city. Sounds good to me.
Sure groceries are exempt, but there is a limit on how much you can reasonably spend. At the rate housing and asset prices are, there appears no limit on how much your wealth can grow. So instead of using a proxy metric (spending) to tax people with wealth, just go after it directly instead.
You’re suggesting a municipal income tax? I doubt that would come to fruition. Again, there is a rebate for those in lower incomes, which I believe addresses your initial concern.
Not sure how you got to that conclusion. I said wealth, not income. Wealth inequality is not the same as income inequality and taxing incoming doesn’t fix wealth inequality. Neither does taxing consumption, as most people tend to horde their wealth in some sort of asset.
I get the point is to try and get the city out of the hole Tory put us in. This is so we can afford better health services. But won’t this tax cause more poverty and increase the demanded for those same services?
Sales taxes are political death. GLWT!
A large part of politics in Toronto revolves around placating property owners, so the powers that be must see the sales tax as less hurtful at the ballot box than a property tax increase.
Yup this is basically it. I even have people arguing with me here the moment i mention the word property tax. Unfortunately a lot of people would vote against their own long term interest in terms of services, community well being etc. for short term capital gains (and in the case of real estate, that’s tax free, lol).
This is perhaps the greatest problem facing us in the 21st century democracy as the world has become more and more complex and the cause and effects of things becomes ever more debatable.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Toronto is proposing a municipal sales tax as part of a slew of new measures aimed at easing a projected $46.5 billion in budget pressures over the next decade, an “unprecedented financial crisis” that if left unaddressed threatens the fiscal foundations of the city.
Speaking at a news conference later Thursday, Toronto Mayor Olivia Chow noted that even if the city adopts all of the various possible revenue tools outlined by staff in the report, they still would not generate enough money to make up for projected budget shortfalls in the long-term.
Both federal Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland and Ontario Premier Doug Ford have repeatedly declined previous requests from the city for additional funding to address its budget hole.
Staff also repeatedly stressed more funding from other levels of government is needed to prevent “significant tax increases,” major service reductions or the outright cancellations of capital projects that “align with shared goals.”
Staff are also urging council to notify the province that “in the absence of a revised funding model,” the city will not be able to move forward with 978 new long-term care beds set to be introduced in coming years.
Tory requested in February that staff look into new tools to generate more revenue, as the city faces projected $1.5 billion budget shortfalls for this year and next in the wake of the COVID-19 pandemic and a grim long-term outlook.
The original article contains 1,162 words, the summary contains 228 words. Saved 80%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
“a one per cent sales tax applied to existing HST/GST” is fine by me. The current HST doesn’t apply to important stuff like basic groceries. And there is a tax rebate on the HST for those of lower incomes (I get this rebate throughout the year). Also, I certainly am not a spendthrift. Reckless consumerism is not my thing. So, let’s get the city in order by taxing those with wealth who engage in reckless consumerism a bit more.
Wealthier residents can afford to just buy their shit outside of the city. This is a stupid idea
Wealthier residents can also afford to save time and not leave the city to purchase things… This idea is fine.
