cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/25231050
By Lubna Masarwa in Jerusalem Published date: 26 January 2025 10:44 GMT
[some very ominous statements from #Trump]
I might be wrong, but I think the Palestinian community had Kamala’s attention and a real opportunity to affect policy if she won the election.
Trump obviously doesn’t care what anyone thinks. He only cares about money/power.
While I doubt she would have won a primary, I am disappointed she got shoved into a difficult situation. With all of the zionists in American politics, it’s hard to speak out against it during an election. We will never know what her plans would have been, but I think most of us know anything would have been better than what Trump intends to do. Gaza is prime real estate now, and the developers are salivating.
Completely agree.
Ah yes, a sort of cleansing operation.
Of people of a particular ethnicity.
I wonder if there’s a term for that…
Like, idk, racial laundering or something.
Gaza protesters got so owned… All that yelling about Biden, Harris, Democrats, while Trump was openly saying this shit all along. And a bunch of you will continue to only complain about Democrats as Gaza gets “cleaned”. You fucking tools.
This glib self congratulatory nonsense is why Democrats will lose forever. Democrats got owned because they spent 8 or 9 months telling everyone that they were working tirelessly on a ceasefire. And what this whole fiasco is proving is that Biden could have stopped it with a phone call but he didn’t. And the polling after the fact shows that would be democratic voters stayed home because they were absolutely disgusted by their party preaching morality doing the right thing while perpetrating/enabling one of the most repugnant acts of slaughter against a trapped population. It all stopped with a phone call from Trump. Whether it was just a temporary pause for the inauguration or a pure attempt at culling the violence in the middle east (it doesn’t matter). It just proved that the Democrats are absolutely full of shit and willing to spite their own constituency to keep oligarchy money flowing.
It all stopped with a phone call from Trump.
Damn, you are seriously drinking some vile maga propaganda if you believe that. I suggest you choose a better information diet.
The democrats could have tried not aiding the genocide. That was always an option. Seems like this was gonna happen either way…
Yeah, whether or not these people who keep patting themselves on the back every single time some new horrible news about Gaza comes out want to admit it, the democrats are complicit in this.
It’s the brain rot of two party politics. The idea that democrats are guilty of aiding in a genocide cannot exist at the same time as the idea that trump would continue and worsen the genocide. They can’t conceive of a situation where the vote for genocide or genocide was unpalatable for many people.
And do they blame the people committing genocide? No, they throw streamers in the air and pop poppers because now they get to say they were right. It doesn’t fucking matter. People are being slaughtered. And our country is complicit. It’s not about blue or red complicity. It’s about the fact that we had no choice but to either shoulder the blame for trump’s deeds, or to shut up and vote for genocide participants.
Why does everything have to be so binary? Is it really that complicated to say there was no good answer on the ballot? Yes, trump is undoubtedly worse. But the fact that we weren’t given any good options to vote for is not on people who couldn’t stomach looking the other way and saying “well, yeah they may be advocating for continuing to aid in genocide, but…”
We all get it. We’ve always gotten it. We didn’t vote for trump. The people who literally thought trump was going to fix the situation and DID vote for him are to blame. But the democrats are to blame for 99% of their own loss. The sooner people stop trying to high road people who couldn’t stomach the choice, the sooner we can be to fuckin doing something about it. And the sooner we can all admit we were given a fuckin shit sandwich or a diarrhea smoothie to choose from, the sooner we can find some fuckin class solidarity. Stop blaming the underclass for being beholden to the ownership class. That’s not our choice. Driving a wedge between the other people who—according to those who keep cheering themselves on—apparently want to see the genocide end is not helping anyone but the people who can’t stop congratulating themselves—well, themselves and the ownership class committing the genocide.
It’s called the Ratchet Effect. It’s explained very well here: https://larryshockey.com/the-american-political-system-and-the-ratchet-effect/
Finally, a good take.
Exactly. I feel sorry for everyone in the US who has to live through another Trump term, but from my outsider perspective the Dems really screwed themselves on this one.
I don’t feel sorry for most. They have decades before trump to work of a multi party system, instead most keep voting for the same two terrible parties and blame 3rd party voters instead
Hamas could have not done that attack or given up the hostages when it was clear what a strategic blunder said attack was… Hezbolla figured it out real quick and didn’t join the attack as they had promised. Meanwhile, US protests have virtually disappeared since Election Day, as if the point was about disenfranchising Democrats and little to do with Gaza. To this day, people who are so concerned about “genocide” don’t say shit about Sudan… Anyway, you can carry on all day about what Democrats should have done and it’ll still be true that Biden or Harris was Gaza’s best case scenario in terms of practical action vs Trump and his goons.
Israel could have decided to not occupy palestine in 67.
I don’t think you understand the point of the protests. People don’t want their government funding and supplying the weapons for a genocide.
What would a protest about Sudan achieve if your country has no involvement in it?
No, the protests have not stopped. You can stop with the whataboutism though. Not even gonna bring up the Uyghurs, sheesh
Ah yes, whataboutism as the answer to any uncomfortable comment. So tell me where and when these protests are occurring. I used to see them weekly in my city, block-long marches down popular streets. They used to block freeways and bridges and college administration buildings were occupied. Did the pre-election protests ever once target a Trump rally? Or any Republican?
Will people take to the streets now to protest Trump and his Republican Congress’s stance on Gaza? Will the people do anything now that the Democrats have lost?
With a simple resesrch you could find protests supporting palestinian but you just another person pretending that you care about gaza and even sudan https://uscpr.org/pro-palestine-protests
Thanks for the link. It seems the bulk of these recent protests are just meetings at a local storefront or a “banner drop” involving only a handful of people. The street marches, building occupations, and bridges closures that required hundreds of people are simply done.
You obviously don’t organize or show up for protests. You’re asking will people show up? lol we’ve been showing up, I suggest trying it, because this is written like someone who’s never been
If the only people who know about the protests are the ones in them, what good are they? The whole point of a protest is to be seen. The fact that we’re not seeing them is a valid critique against their efficacy.
Nobody knows the first time they go. Give it a try so you don’t spread misinformed options
.ee == .ml
No one is fooled.
Tolerance for this nonsense attitude is why the Democrats never feel a need to respond to their own constituents. You are berating people for choosing the ‘burn Palestinians’ party instead of the ‘turn Palestinians into ground meat’ party. Neither vote would have changed anything about the circumstances on the ground, but for some reason, people like you want to perpetuate the myth that Democrats as a party are even slightly better than Republicans on this issue. Your attitude makes progress on this issue in US politics dramatically less likely.
You can’t condemn a bad person or entity because another one will do more bad things? What kind of logic is this? Do you really care about palestinians or you just defend your democrat cult?
You can condemn them while not letting the proto fascist in.
You had decades to try to make effort to end the two party system before trump went to election. You keep supporting those two imperial parties destroying multiple countries and overthrowing multiple democratically elected regime all over the world. Besides 3rd parties voters all the rest of you are complicit to this genocide and the election of the pro fascist
No I didn’t. I’m no dem. Have never voted. Not American but would’ve voted to stop the proto fascist over status quo as it’s easier to organise under the status quo.
And if I didn’t it’d be only in the hopes that things would get so bad that it’d cause a revolution. Not under the delusion that Trump would be equal or better than Kamala in Palestine.
Im not condoning anything that is happening in the middle east but calling Hamas a democratically elected regime is a bit of a stretch.
Like you give a fuck about human lives. Just defending your mindless ideology as if somehow sparing lives is less important. Disgusting.
My comment is about advocating to call out anybody or any entity who do terrible things and you have the audacity to say that i don’t care about human lives. Can you also tell me what is my ideology?
Evidently, making the perfect the enemy of the good, at all costs.
There is nothing “good” about the US enabling genocide and preventing the ICC from prosecuting war criminals. Biden admitted he is a war criminal on a nationally televised interview shortly before leaving office. The word you’re looking for is “indefensible.”
Quit your semantic bullshit. Fewer dead people is relatively good, and that is the best that anyone’s going to do in our grim reality.
I never saw a single person say Trump would be better for Palestine, so I’m not sure what you’re on about…
As for complaining about Dems and not Trump, that makes sense to me because it’s assumed that Trump is shit, but Dems pretend to be better than they are.
There were absolutely people on Lemmy claiming Trump would be better.
True but how many?
Apparently enough people either thought that or didn’t give a shit to give us another four years of trump.
That’s one way to end the war.
What kind of solution is that? Any adjectives come to mind?
It’s the solution after the penultimate one but I can’t think of the word.
Post-penultimate has a nice ring to it.
the one Israel has been pursuing for +40 years. it was never about ‘hostages’
Of course! Why make Israel live in peace fairly with the Palestinians when you can just shove them in a different corner and forget about them. Its not like these are people who had homes and families and businesses or anything.
Fucking disgusting.
I’m so tired of Americans looking at everything through the lens of their broken political system. Do you want to discuss which flavour of cola, Pepsi or Coka would be “better”? Go to your own internal politics community and knock yourselves out.
The US president is suggesting ethnically cleansing Gaza. That’s the story here, not Biden or Kamala. Your petty infighting means jack shit to the rest of us.
EDIT: Imagine if I started with an analysis of the situation based off of Montreal politics. “Oh boy, those Coderre voters will sure be glad that they downvoted Plante. What were they thinking”. And then there are long discussion threads underneath with a bunch of Montrealers discussing the nuances of Coderre vs Plante. That would suck the air out of the discussion, it would center the wrong thing and ultimately make the whole subject about Montreal, as opposed to Palestine. And everyone would be absolutely right to be mad at Montrealers for hijacking the discussion with their petty internal politics. That’s what it looks like.
While true, the US is, unfortunately, the primary supplier to the genocide. That makes it world news.
Yes, but the point they are making is that the USA is now calling for genocide officially, it seems. Biden and Harris are no longer relevant.
Nothing will fundamentally change.
-Joe “I’m a lifelong Zionist” Biden
At least now one of the parties are going to pretend it have an issue with it
When it was Biden the only people in office openly criticizing genocide was Bernie and a literal handful of House reps.
That’s the worse part of “moderates”, when they’re in office and we’re not allowed to criticize them for rightwing positions, it takes the sail out of protests when it switches back to a real conservative in office.
The DNC just got telling everyone pro-fracking, pro border wall, anti healthcare reform, and sucking up to oligarchs was fine…
Just not when trump does it, so now we have to waste time explaining that it really was awful when Biden/Kamala wanted it, and it’s still awful now that trump wants it. Because too many are going to view Trump’s current actions as less evil, because Kamala held the same policy positions.
Uh, we all knew it was awful when Biden/Kamala did it, but we also knew it would get even worse under Trump. But then we got “Both sides are identical, it can’t possibly get worse under Trump”. And now, here we are. Clowns to the left of me, fascists to the right.
This election was not about the usual fake progressives vs neoliberal conservatives as you’re making it up to be. It was about a veneer of constitutionality at home vs blatant authoritarianism everywhere (that’s why you had Cheney and Harris on the same side). Lefties should have known better, but mainly centrists, swing voters and lo-info voters are the major chunk of voters to yell at.
These people downvoting are the same people who said the genocide in Gaza wasn’t something to concern ourselves with since both candidates supported it anyway. How quickly the tune changes once they can use it to act self-righteous while whitewashing the past.
