• ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago
    • socsa@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      Sorry, you can’t have democracy without basic political agency. You can’t have basic political agency without the ability to speak freely.

      Picking between three party approved technocrats is not sufficient for political self determination.

      • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        Sorry, you can’t have democracy without basic political agency. You can’t have basic political agency without the ability to speak freely.

        Somebody should let people like Assange, Manning, and Snowden know that they can speak freely.

        Picking between three party approved technocrats is not sufficient for political self determination.

        Ah yes, real democracy is picking between parties owned by the oligarchs. 😂

            • socsa@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              It’s like you don’t even have a passing familiarity with Chinese politics. The local councils which the average person can actually vote for are notoriously corrupt. Easily as bad as anything you’ll find in the west, and often far more so.

              • drgltch@lemmy.fmhy.ml
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                1 year ago

                A major difference between China and the West re: corruption is that it’s institutionalized in the West and called “lobbying.” Because of this, it’s easy for Westerners to point at China and say local councils are “notoriously corrupt” but not bat an eye at lobbyists, rich donors, and [super]pacs swaying Congressional votes.

              • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                It’s like I linked a whole bunch of scholarly articles from institutions like Harvard explaining Chinese politics. The reality is that people in China have seen their lives consistently improve with each and every decade. Countless studies show that the standard of living in China is improving at an incredible rate, and that people see the government work in their interest.

                And yes, China isn’t perfect, there’s corruption, but that’s missing the point entirely. Corruption exists in every human society, the discussion is whose interest the government is working in. In the west the government works in the interest of the capital owning class, in China it works in the interest of the working majority.

                • socsa@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  Bro, I have family in China and have lived there for a few years. You are completely delusional about how this works in practice. I’ve also seen the real terror on the real face of a real person when you so much as utter some controversial political language in the wrong company.

                  It’s actually insane to me that you will call the west brainwashed, and then quote satisfaction surveys of the CCP without a hint of self awareness. Come on. You want actual data? China is ranked lower than basically every other developed nation on the global corruption perception index.

                  https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2022

                  • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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                    1 year ago

                    Bro I have friends from China, and lots of my friends moved back to China after university. Weird how Chinese students keep returning to China because it’s such a hell right. What’s insane is that somebody could live in the west and not see the brainwashing.

                    Meanwhile, it’s absolutely hilarious how you keep going on about corruption when countries like US have an entire government owned by the oligarchs.

                    Again, the fact you keep dancing around is that quality of life in China has been improving dramatically by practically every measure, meanwhile the opposite is happening in the west. That’s the elephant in the room mr. transparency index.

        • atzanteol
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          1 year ago

          From your own damn source.

          Although state censorship and propaganda are widespread [in China]

          🤣

    • Sploosh the Water@vlemmy.net
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      1 year ago

      I’m not interested in any political system where I can’t criticize the ruling party without fearing for my or my family’s safety or permanently becoming unable to find employment anywhere except coal/steel plants working 12-14/hours straight 6 days a week for piss wages…

        • Sploosh the Water@vlemmy.net
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          1 year ago

          Don’t get me wrong, I’m an anarchist, I’m against the USA model as much as the Chinese model.

          But lol, yeah sorry, not interested in being forced to conform by a hierarchy of “leaders” who have no inherent right to do so in the name of “society” or some vague idea of the greater good/social contract.

            • Sploosh the Water@vlemmy.net
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              1 year ago
              1. Fallacious argument. Just because something hasn’t been successful before or people don’t see how to make it work doesn’t justify an existing unethical/immoral system. Plenty of people thought it was crazy to imagine a world where slavery wasn’t a thing. That didn’t justify continuing that system though.

              2. There are many of examples of anarchist or pseudo-anarchist communities that exist. Many Shaolin monastic communities are anarchistic, and egalitarian depending on the sect. Some Mennonite and old world Amish communities are anarchistic also, having only collective property and some personal property, no privatization.

              Some first nations tribes were pseudo-anarchist, operating as a collective with egalitarian leadership based largely on life experience and wisdom, they maintained completely voluntary relationships with other tribes in the region and had no private property.

              • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                It’s not a fallacious argument at all. When people keep trying to do something for over a century and have nothing to show for it, then the onus is on them to demonstrate that it can work. If you tell me that walking sucks because you can flap your arms and fly much faster, then you have to demonstrate that it’s actually possible to do.

                Communists have built successful communist states that liberated millions of people from capitalist oppression, provided them with education, food, housing, and jobs. These are real tangible improvements that are possible following the communist model.

                Anarchists have never achieved any sort of liberation at scale, and these pseudo-anarchist communities don’t translate into systemic change in society.

              • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                What communists accomplished in USSR, China, Cuba, Laos, and Vietnam are all successes of communism, even if they don’t fit with your ideals. All of these revolutions have resulted in huge tangible improvements in the standard of living for the people, and created far more egalitarian societies than anything seen under capitalism.

                • Akasazh@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  Not really successes at all if you’ve read your Marx.

                  All of them followed in Stalins ‘leninistic’ (how ironic) approach. With a single ruler that reeks of old fashioned monarchism rather then the rule of the prolitariat. Some of them even renouncing communism and embracing blatant capitalism (some only embracing capitalism but staying communist in name only).

                  The only thing they do for pure marxism is accelerating the revolution to come, but actualy condoning repression in other places just for that sake is quite fin de siecle type of marxist thought.

                  • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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                    1 year ago

                    Having read my Marx, I know that Marx realized that Leninistic approach would be necessary to create a socialist state. This is the key disagreement Marx had with anarchists. Furthermore, it’s obvious that when the world is dominated by a capitalist hegemon, socialist states exist under siege. The fact that you equate socialist states with monarchism shows profound lack of understanding of the subject you’re debating.

    • janeshep@feddit.it
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      1 year ago

      Democracy is working just fine in China according to people who live there.

      Lmao, what? You can’t be serious.

      Wait, are you serious?!