You pay to submit your article. The people who review your article are usually doing it for free/prestige - they aren’t usually paid by the journal. You don’t get paid when someone reads or downloads your article. The journals then make deals with institutions and libraries to sell these articles at monstrously ridiculous subscription fees, making the articles effectively inaccessible to the public. (JSTOR now lets you make a free account and access a couple little things, even that is a concession)
It’s not beneficial for anyone. They depend on the fact that you have to publish to have a career. Keep in mind tons of research is funded by public money too. These companies add almost no value and take in all of the profit.
Because of how shitty and scammy this system already was, more serious grifters have realized that they can run journals just to get paid. There’s an epidemic of these predatory journals publishing abysmal research.
Most of the people who write the articles hate this system too - many profs will often happily send you a pdf or chapter if you send a nice email.
Ok I simply don’t understand how the same means and methods used by the free and open source software community have not been employed here. These are smart people! Just start your own damn free journal service, found a council and tap some industry-leading researchers in some common fields to start reviewing papers.
This is like driving through a decent neighborhood and being like “The mob rules this neighborhood? Why don’t people just tell them to leave?”.
Academic publishers are just very specialized gangs, there is no functional difference between the business model of Elsevier and the business model of a local crimelord.
This isn’t hyperbole, it is a joke, but it is also just basically the truth of it.
Scientists are hamsters that are put onto specific hamster wheels that they must spin for a certain amount of time each day lest they be fired, one of those hamster wheels is doing free labor (peer reviewing) for academic journals like Elsevier. Like a good mafia system, academic publishers don’t have to openly threaten to hurt scientists to compel them to do free labor as the system is set up to simply grind them to dust if they don’t excitedly jump on the hamster wheel of providing free value to said academic publishers.
Imagine for a minute academic publishing was like the music industry except it paid musicians shit and all the profits, of which there were major profits, never went to the musicians but instead to a bunch of vacuous middlemen who condescendingly took the musicians money while telling them their labor is next to worthless. Lol (I am crying inside right now) now imagine that unlike the real music industry this hypothetical music industry was heavily subsidized by tax payers but still SOMEHOW those musicians still had all the profits of their labor transferred to the ownership of a small number of rich people even though taxpayers had paid for it and thus like the musicians deserved to own it themselves.
I am not in academia but did participate in published research both in college and in a job as a lab assistant afterward. I don’t really think your analogy holds up. There is literally no cost to such a change; scientists just need to start READING and CITING papers from free, alternative journals for them to be legitimized. The profit incentives of the universities, private industry, and government that fund the majority of research are not affected by the choice of the medium of exchange of ideas. Only the journals’ pockets.
You aren’t wrong, there isn’t actually a lot holding the system back from changing, which is exactly why I compare it to a mafia model.
The mafia is only ever just one jerk at the top who makes every chump underneath them sacred enough not to look to their neighbor and go “do we really need this asshole?”. Just understanding the current conditions as a pure product of individual agents agreeing to consent or not to is not a complete picture, you have to include in the context the ways in which a culture of consent both in what is necessary and what is possible is created that is essential to the suffocating power of the system to preclude other possibilities.
There’s actually a bunch of journals that have Open Access (making the articles available for free, usually under Creative Commons licenses). That at least eliminates the cost for the readers.
However, that’s not a guarantee the OA journals don’t collect publication fees, or even that the fees would be smaller than on non-OA journals. Fees range from “just trying to keep the lights on” to “same ol’ grift, but ostensibly nicer to the reader”.
Also, starting a new journal is always a bit of a tricky process in that you obviously want the people to trust in the journal and starting from total zero makes it harder. There have been a bunch of journals that were outright scams and OA obviously won’t fix that.
Academic journals are huge grifts.
You pay to submit your article. The people who review your article are usually doing it for free/prestige - they aren’t usually paid by the journal. You don’t get paid when someone reads or downloads your article. The journals then make deals with institutions and libraries to sell these articles at monstrously ridiculous subscription fees, making the articles effectively inaccessible to the public. (JSTOR now lets you make a free account and access a couple little things, even that is a concession)
It’s not beneficial for anyone. They depend on the fact that you have to publish to have a career. Keep in mind tons of research is funded by public money too. These companies add almost no value and take in all of the profit.
Because of how shitty and scammy this system already was, more serious grifters have realized that they can run journals just to get paid. There’s an epidemic of these predatory journals publishing abysmal research.
Most of the people who write the articles hate this system too - many profs will often happily send you a pdf or chapter if you send a nice email.
Ok I simply don’t understand how the same means and methods used by the free and open source software community have not been employed here. These are smart people! Just start your own damn free journal service, found a council and tap some industry-leading researchers in some common fields to start reviewing papers.
This is like driving through a decent neighborhood and being like “The mob rules this neighborhood? Why don’t people just tell them to leave?”.
Academic publishers are just very specialized gangs, there is no functional difference between the business model of Elsevier and the business model of a local crimelord.
This isn’t hyperbole, it is a joke, but it is also just basically the truth of it.
Scientists are hamsters that are put onto specific hamster wheels that they must spin for a certain amount of time each day lest they be fired, one of those hamster wheels is doing free labor (peer reviewing) for academic journals like Elsevier. Like a good mafia system, academic publishers don’t have to openly threaten to hurt scientists to compel them to do free labor as the system is set up to simply grind them to dust if they don’t excitedly jump on the hamster wheel of providing free value to said academic publishers.
Imagine for a minute academic publishing was like the music industry except it paid musicians shit and all the profits, of which there were major profits, never went to the musicians but instead to a bunch of vacuous middlemen who condescendingly took the musicians money while telling them their labor is next to worthless. Lol (I am crying inside right now) now imagine that unlike the real music industry this hypothetical music industry was heavily subsidized by tax payers but still SOMEHOW those musicians still had all the profits of their labor transferred to the ownership of a small number of rich people even though taxpayers had paid for it and thus like the musicians deserved to own it themselves.
I am not in academia but did participate in published research both in college and in a job as a lab assistant afterward. I don’t really think your analogy holds up. There is literally no cost to such a change; scientists just need to start READING and CITING papers from free, alternative journals for them to be legitimized. The profit incentives of the universities, private industry, and government that fund the majority of research are not affected by the choice of the medium of exchange of ideas. Only the journals’ pockets.
You aren’t wrong, there isn’t actually a lot holding the system back from changing, which is exactly why I compare it to a mafia model.
The mafia is only ever just one jerk at the top who makes every chump underneath them sacred enough not to look to their neighbor and go “do we really need this asshole?”. Just understanding the current conditions as a pure product of individual agents agreeing to consent or not to is not a complete picture, you have to include in the context the ways in which a culture of consent both in what is necessary and what is possible is created that is essential to the suffocating power of the system to preclude other possibilities.
There’s actually a bunch of journals that have Open Access (making the articles available for free, usually under Creative Commons licenses). That at least eliminates the cost for the readers.
However, that’s not a guarantee the OA journals don’t collect publication fees, or even that the fees would be smaller than on non-OA journals. Fees range from “just trying to keep the lights on” to “same ol’ grift, but ostensibly nicer to the reader”.
Also, starting a new journal is always a bit of a tricky process in that you obviously want the people to trust in the journal and starting from total zero makes it harder. There have been a bunch of journals that were outright scams and OA obviously won’t fix that.
Also go ahead and guess what kinds of journals are considered prestigious in academia and will open critical doors for a scientist in their career…
hint, it isn’t the ones trying to make academic publishing better and accessible for all