The OG Steam controller was a bust in general, but yeah, they ended up having to add a stick there. And the original Vive controllers were touchpad-only, which was a bad choice that was reverted somewhere in the process of Valve exiting the picture and every other VR controller standardizing around sticks instead. And notably the Steam Deck launched with dual sticks in a standard configuration despite insisting on keeping the dual trackpads, but very few competitors have followed suit. One touchpad, sure, because these all need a remedial solution for a pointing device, but two is rare (I can think of one other example).
So yeah, Valve has been dragged kicking and screaming back to the standard layout, much as they seem to not want to entirely let go of the idea for some reason. There aren’t many examples because they don’t make a ton of hardware, but there is nothing in the history of those haptic trackpads to suggest that they’re a runaway hit with users that will become the go-to for input devices. There’s a lot more evidence for the opposite.
I fundamentally disagree that the touchpads had anything to do with the Deck’s success. Reading reviews, looking at usage lists and just looking at how the thing is used, the killer feature is and has always been the ridiculously low price for what it packs and the user-friendly UI. The entire point of SteamOS is making the device manageable with the sticks alone and not needing a pointer device as much as the Windows alternatives. You’re projecting your tastes onto it pretty heavily there.
I have to say, there is so much self-contradiction in people that get activist about this segment. And I say that as someone heavily invested in it. I upgraded from the OG Deck to the OLED and I own other handhelds. But man, people need to decide whether the reason the Deck is great is that it IS a console that works like a console and doesn’t need to mess around with annoying Windows quirks… or a full-fledged PC that is not really competing with consoles.
Look, the Deck is a very, very, very cheap handheld PC that is less performant and not as sleek as some of the more boutique alternatives, but it’s the best value in that space. And it’s less of a hassle to use out of the box than the Windows alternatives (although the difference is smaller than most people claim, honestly). It’s not as smooth as a console, it’s clunky and it’s less compatible than inititally promised. And not as successful as you’d think from the attention it gets. But it’s good. Not best in class in most areas, but definitely best in value by a large margin.
Lol on planet earth? It sold over 1 million units in a couple months, and is so beloved and sought after that they go for over $150 in box on secondhand markets still today… Is it my favorite controller for playing games that are designed for controller? No, of course not, but that’s not what it is for… For playing non-controller games from the couch while docked to the TV, though? Absolutely indispensable, there is nothing else that exists that comes close to the success of the Steam Controller.
despite insisting on keeping the dual trackpads
Valve has been dragged kicking and screaming back to the standard layout
I don’t think anyone has ever expected or suggested that analog stick would not be included or do not belong on the Steam Deck, including Valve. The idea that Valve is against analog stick or attempted to not include them in the first place is ludicrous and the points you make about this are completely moot lol. The point of the device is to allow play of all games, and the sticks obviously play a role in that for games that were designed to be played with them. There’s never been any dragging or kicking or screaming.
Obviously there are many factors that contribute to the success of the Steam Deck: price, hardware performance, input features, Steam OS usability, compatibility with the vast majority of Steam libraries, etc. My point is that the touchpads are a discriminator between a handheld PC and a handheld console, a subtle but real difference. Comparing the Steam Deck to handheld consoles, it is not even close to the same sales of these devices like Nintendo Switch. But it doesn’t matter, it is still hailed as a major success, because it isn’t a handheld console.
One million units in the accessory market may as well be zero. The game controller market is woth billions each year just in the US. Specific per-company market share is hard to come by, but I’ll put it this way: none of the data I’ve seen even includes Valve as a player in the space.
I do have a Steam Controller and it will continue to sit in a box next to the Steam Link indefinitely, because see above about having a collecting issue with controllers. My solution for playing non-controller games on the TV ended up being a lapboard with an embedded keyboard an a mouse area from Roccat, which they’ve discontinued because they’re dumb.
The points I make about the success of the pads are entirely reasonable, seeing how Valve DID in fact market them as stick and button replacements on the original and included them instead of having sticks on the Vive controllers. They tried to sell them as a replacement, they did not work for that.
The Steam Controller is in this bizarre space where it bombed so hard it is not remembered at all by most and yet it has been subject to this revisionist history where instead of being briefly available and getting discontinued because nobody really wanted them or was using them it was a massive success that is not being made anyway because… I don’t know, because they’re special and unique and Valve doesn’t want to devalue them? I have no idea how this is supposed to have gone down.
I mean, it’s fine, it’s not even close to the weirdest piece of tech I own. Not even the weirdest controller I own. But it was never a killer app, it was never particularly successful and the dumb touchpads were absolutely marketed as being superior to physical controls and were extremely not that. I was there for the fifteen minutes it took everybody to decide this, I remember.
Memory and thumbs, two conversations that you need to have with a doctor lol. You can literally just look at Steam Controller reviews and reception, these webpages all still exist on the internet… Basically the only thing that it is dinged on in reviews is the plastic build quality (totally valid, the plastic does feel cheap), lack of compatibility with Mac, and need for input mapping. The worst that I have ever seen said about the touchpads on it is “it takes getting used to” for games that are controller-first, while for non-controller games they are completely intuitive and just work.
Neither I, nor Valve, have ever pushed the touchpads as a stick replacement, and I will just keep reiterating my point that they are indispensable for use with non-controller games and without them, the product is lacking to the point of being unusable for these types of games. Continuing to try to make points about stick replacement is a deflection and a strawman, honestly.
it was a massive success that is not being made anyway because… I don’t know, because they’re special and unique
We’re talking about Valve, this is basically their MO. Same could be said about their games… Half-Life, Portal, Left 4 Dead, Team Fortress: “massive success that is not being made anyway because… I don’t know, because they’re special and unique” yup. The only thing that is weird about Steam Controller stopping production is they didn’t stop after 2.
I have no doubt that some diehard PC gamers will put in tons of time customizing Steam Controller profiles, practicing, and becoming much more accurate than they ever would be with gamepad aiming. But the best you’re ever going to get is almost as good as a mouse, and I think games designed for an Xbox or PlayStation pad will still play better with the native hardware. Spending hours trying out the Steam Controller in the living room, I realized that don’t see much reason to make that compromise. There are very few PC games without controller support that I really want to play on my TV. When I tried, I mostly ended up just missing my mouse.
Hilariously the guy got much more negative (honest?) about it over time.
It works great for typing in Steam Big Picture mode or in SteamOS, but it ultimately fails at replicating the speed and precision of a mouse for gaming. Traditional controllers use a thumbstick to let users look around in games, but with the Steam Controller, you’re forced to use the right touchpad to look around and aim. I tried tweaking the sensitivity of the pads for various games but I could find any setting that felt natural. I constantly overshot my targets and relied on the right thumbstick for accuracy instead.
As touched on already, it’s difficult for the dual-trackpads to replace the trusty thumbstick, especially when it comes to aiming in first-person shooters, or even moving the camera around. I believe it’s certainly possible to get the hang of it and while everything appears to be accurate enough, it simply doesn’t feel as responsive as the thumbstick, or rather you don’t feel quite in control for quick snappy movements.
Valve being reported as saying trackpads are the superior option at The Escapist
while also admitting they couldn’t get people to use them:
The machinist said that the new prototype’s analog stick was tied to movement, in order to “ease new players in” to using the two trackpads, by starting them off using just one for aiming. While he said that the prototype had been successful, and that players were eventually able to transition to the dual trackpad layout, its big disadvantage that the controller’s d-pad had to be cut to make room for the stick.
I was there. I bought one. Why do you make me do homework?
games designed for an Xbox or PlayStation pad will still play better with the native hardware
it’s difficult for the dual-trackpads to replace the trusty thumbstick, especially when it comes to aiming in first-person shooters
you literally just cherry-picked the same “stick replacement” talking point that I’ve already identified as a strawman and irrelevant to this discussion 🤦 Dude, no one is saying that the touchpads are a stick replacement or that the Steam Controller is better for playing controller-first console games. That’s literally why there are 2 analog sticks on the Steam Deck… and why I use them for controller-first games… and why Steam Controller isn’t my favorite or even what I would recommend for controller-first games… If someone at Valve said that once, then they’re wrong. The analog sticks being better for controller games doesn’t change the fact that not having touchpads entirely limits the usability of the device for non-controller games.
If all you play are console games and first-person shooters, 1) that’s totally fine, 2) yeah, you probably don’t get much if any use out of the touchpads. Those aren’t the only games that I play on Steam Deck or while docked to TV, though, and the touchpads on the Steam Deck and Steam Controller allow me to to play these other types of games that would not be possible to play effectively with a typical controller. If the Steam Deck only came with touchpads and no sticks, then we would be limited in the other direction. It has both, but other devices marketed as Steam Deck challengers do not have both.
it ultimately fails at replicating the speed and precision of a mouse for gaming
Obviously… lol, its not like the intention was ever to be using the Steam Controller at a desk while gaming on a desktop instead of using the mouse… but I’m not going to use a traditional mouse when sitting on my couch. Still irrelevant
Valve said it. It’s not a straw man. I’m not cherry picking. Those are direct quotes from contemporary reviewers going off Valve’s marketing and review guides. The first that I could find, too, there’s only so much homework I’m willing to do.
The damn thing went to market with that as a USP. They told everybody the pads were superior before they had to backtrack on it and add a single stick because they couldn’t get playtesters to go along with it.
If you think you know better than Valve and they mismarketed the thing… well, great. Good for you. But they still mismarketed the thing, people still reviewed it as a stick replacement and it still reviewed poorly on that front.
Now, I’d argue it was also poor at being a mouse replacement, which is also something mentioned in contemporary reviews. It may technically enable you to play a strategy game, but you’re not going to excel at Dota 2 on a Steam Controller. There are multiple superior alternatives. Most obviously to just… you know, go to a desk and play with a mouse, but there are also multiple solutions to have a laptop mouse and keyboard combo. There was that Roccat solution and there are a number of variants on “here’s a flat surface with a USB hub inside it” you can use for that, if you must.
So if it’s not a great standard controller replacement and it’s not a great mouse replacement, what is it for? It never solved the issue of playing mouse and keyboard games on the couch effectively, which by your own account was the entire idea (even though it wasn’t). The solution to that ended up being developers adding mouse and keyboard options instead. And maybe gyro aiming.
In any case, we at least got Steam Input out of it, which never did much to fix the shortcomings of the Steam Controller, but is a solid tool to enhance controller support for other devices and it picks up the slack from Sony refusing to properly support their controllers on PC.
Arguing against a point that actually isn’t the argument the other person is making is the definition of strawman. I am not arguing that the touchpads are good for replacing sticks. Making the point that touchpads are bad at replacing sticks over and over again is a textbook example of a strawman. I agree with you on it, it is irrelevant, it doesn’t score you any points against what I am actually saying.
So if it’s not a great standard controller replacement and it’s not a great mouse replacement
Correct, yes, we all agree here.
what is it for?
Playing non-controller games from the couch or in a handheld form factor. Lmfao
It never solved the issue of playing mouse and keyboard games on the couch effectively
This is where we disagree and what you have not actually made any points on that support your opinion that touchpads do not solve this effectively, besides it hurts your thumbs, which is a you thing, really
No, friend, the argument you’re making is that Valve didn’t sell it based on its ability to replace sticks or mice, which is what is incorrect.
Also, there are no points. This is a conversation, not basketball.
Explain to me how we can simultaneoulsy agree that it’s not a great mouse replacement and you can still claim that it’s a good solution to play non-controller games.
What non-controller games are these that don’t rely on a mouse? Have we been arguing about your Donkey Konga or Typing of the Dead controller all along?
The OG Steam controller was a bust in general, but yeah, they ended up having to add a stick there. And the original Vive controllers were touchpad-only, which was a bad choice that was reverted somewhere in the process of Valve exiting the picture and every other VR controller standardizing around sticks instead. And notably the Steam Deck launched with dual sticks in a standard configuration despite insisting on keeping the dual trackpads, but very few competitors have followed suit. One touchpad, sure, because these all need a remedial solution for a pointing device, but two is rare (I can think of one other example).
So yeah, Valve has been dragged kicking and screaming back to the standard layout, much as they seem to not want to entirely let go of the idea for some reason. There aren’t many examples because they don’t make a ton of hardware, but there is nothing in the history of those haptic trackpads to suggest that they’re a runaway hit with users that will become the go-to for input devices. There’s a lot more evidence for the opposite.
I fundamentally disagree that the touchpads had anything to do with the Deck’s success. Reading reviews, looking at usage lists and just looking at how the thing is used, the killer feature is and has always been the ridiculously low price for what it packs and the user-friendly UI. The entire point of SteamOS is making the device manageable with the sticks alone and not needing a pointer device as much as the Windows alternatives. You’re projecting your tastes onto it pretty heavily there.
I have to say, there is so much self-contradiction in people that get activist about this segment. And I say that as someone heavily invested in it. I upgraded from the OG Deck to the OLED and I own other handhelds. But man, people need to decide whether the reason the Deck is great is that it IS a console that works like a console and doesn’t need to mess around with annoying Windows quirks… or a full-fledged PC that is not really competing with consoles.
Look, the Deck is a very, very, very cheap handheld PC that is less performant and not as sleek as some of the more boutique alternatives, but it’s the best value in that space. And it’s less of a hassle to use out of the box than the Windows alternatives (although the difference is smaller than most people claim, honestly). It’s not as smooth as a console, it’s clunky and it’s less compatible than inititally promised. And not as successful as you’d think from the attention it gets. But it’s good. Not best in class in most areas, but definitely best in value by a large margin.
Lol on planet earth? It sold over 1 million units in a couple months, and is so beloved and sought after that they go for over $150 in box on secondhand markets still today… Is it my favorite controller for playing games that are designed for controller? No, of course not, but that’s not what it is for… For playing non-controller games from the couch while docked to the TV, though? Absolutely indispensable, there is nothing else that exists that comes close to the success of the Steam Controller.
I don’t think anyone has ever expected or suggested that analog stick would not be included or do not belong on the Steam Deck, including Valve. The idea that Valve is against analog stick or attempted to not include them in the first place is ludicrous and the points you make about this are completely moot lol. The point of the device is to allow play of all games, and the sticks obviously play a role in that for games that were designed to be played with them. There’s never been any dragging or kicking or screaming.
Obviously there are many factors that contribute to the success of the Steam Deck: price, hardware performance, input features, Steam OS usability, compatibility with the vast majority of Steam libraries, etc. My point is that the touchpads are a discriminator between a handheld PC and a handheld console, a subtle but real difference. Comparing the Steam Deck to handheld consoles, it is not even close to the same sales of these devices like Nintendo Switch. But it doesn’t matter, it is still hailed as a major success, because it isn’t a handheld console.
One million units in the accessory market may as well be zero. The game controller market is woth billions each year just in the US. Specific per-company market share is hard to come by, but I’ll put it this way: none of the data I’ve seen even includes Valve as a player in the space.
I do have a Steam Controller and it will continue to sit in a box next to the Steam Link indefinitely, because see above about having a collecting issue with controllers. My solution for playing non-controller games on the TV ended up being a lapboard with an embedded keyboard an a mouse area from Roccat, which they’ve discontinued because they’re dumb.
The points I make about the success of the pads are entirely reasonable, seeing how Valve DID in fact market them as stick and button replacements on the original and included them instead of having sticks on the Vive controllers. They tried to sell them as a replacement, they did not work for that.
The Steam Controller is in this bizarre space where it bombed so hard it is not remembered at all by most and yet it has been subject to this revisionist history where instead of being briefly available and getting discontinued because nobody really wanted them or was using them it was a massive success that is not being made anyway because… I don’t know, because they’re special and unique and Valve doesn’t want to devalue them? I have no idea how this is supposed to have gone down.
I mean, it’s fine, it’s not even close to the weirdest piece of tech I own. Not even the weirdest controller I own. But it was never a killer app, it was never particularly successful and the dumb touchpads were absolutely marketed as being superior to physical controls and were extremely not that. I was there for the fifteen minutes it took everybody to decide this, I remember.
Memory and thumbs, two conversations that you need to have with a doctor lol. You can literally just look at Steam Controller reviews and reception, these webpages all still exist on the internet… Basically the only thing that it is dinged on in reviews is the plastic build quality (totally valid, the plastic does feel cheap), lack of compatibility with Mac, and need for input mapping. The worst that I have ever seen said about the touchpads on it is “it takes getting used to” for games that are controller-first, while for non-controller games they are completely intuitive and just work.
Neither I, nor Valve, have ever pushed the touchpads as a stick replacement, and I will just keep reiterating my point that they are indispensable for use with non-controller games and without them, the product is lacking to the point of being unusable for these types of games. Continuing to try to make points about stick replacement is a deflection and a strawman, honestly.
We’re talking about Valve, this is basically their MO. Same could be said about their games… Half-Life, Portal, Left 4 Dead, Team Fortress: “massive success that is not being made anyway because… I don’t know, because they’re special and unique” yup. The only thing that is weird about Steam Controller stopping production is they didn’t stop after 2.
Oh, my Gabe.
Okay, here. PC Gamer review:
Hilariously the guy got much more negative (honest?) about it over time.
IGN, on the trackpad on its review:
Windows Central:
Valve being reported as saying trackpads are the superior option at The Escapist while also admitting they couldn’t get people to use them:
I was there. I bought one. Why do you make me do homework?
you literally just cherry-picked the same “stick replacement” talking point that I’ve already identified as a strawman and irrelevant to this discussion 🤦 Dude, no one is saying that the touchpads are a stick replacement or that the Steam Controller is better for playing controller-first console games. That’s literally why there are 2 analog sticks on the Steam Deck… and why I use them for controller-first games… and why Steam Controller isn’t my favorite or even what I would recommend for controller-first games… If someone at Valve said that once, then they’re wrong. The analog sticks being better for controller games doesn’t change the fact that not having touchpads entirely limits the usability of the device for non-controller games.
If all you play are console games and first-person shooters, 1) that’s totally fine, 2) yeah, you probably don’t get much if any use out of the touchpads. Those aren’t the only games that I play on Steam Deck or while docked to TV, though, and the touchpads on the Steam Deck and Steam Controller allow me to to play these other types of games that would not be possible to play effectively with a typical controller. If the Steam Deck only came with touchpads and no sticks, then we would be limited in the other direction. It has both, but other devices marketed as Steam Deck challengers do not have both.
Obviously… lol, its not like the intention was ever to be using the Steam Controller at a desk while gaming on a desktop instead of using the mouse… but I’m not going to use a traditional mouse when sitting on my couch. Still irrelevant
Valve said it. It’s not a straw man. I’m not cherry picking. Those are direct quotes from contemporary reviewers going off Valve’s marketing and review guides. The first that I could find, too, there’s only so much homework I’m willing to do.
The damn thing went to market with that as a USP. They told everybody the pads were superior before they had to backtrack on it and add a single stick because they couldn’t get playtesters to go along with it.
If you think you know better than Valve and they mismarketed the thing… well, great. Good for you. But they still mismarketed the thing, people still reviewed it as a stick replacement and it still reviewed poorly on that front.
Now, I’d argue it was also poor at being a mouse replacement, which is also something mentioned in contemporary reviews. It may technically enable you to play a strategy game, but you’re not going to excel at Dota 2 on a Steam Controller. There are multiple superior alternatives. Most obviously to just… you know, go to a desk and play with a mouse, but there are also multiple solutions to have a laptop mouse and keyboard combo. There was that Roccat solution and there are a number of variants on “here’s a flat surface with a USB hub inside it” you can use for that, if you must.
So if it’s not a great standard controller replacement and it’s not a great mouse replacement, what is it for? It never solved the issue of playing mouse and keyboard games on the couch effectively, which by your own account was the entire idea (even though it wasn’t). The solution to that ended up being developers adding mouse and keyboard options instead. And maybe gyro aiming.
In any case, we at least got Steam Input out of it, which never did much to fix the shortcomings of the Steam Controller, but is a solid tool to enhance controller support for other devices and it picks up the slack from Sony refusing to properly support their controllers on PC.
Arguing against a point that actually isn’t the argument the other person is making is the definition of strawman. I am not arguing that the touchpads are good for replacing sticks. Making the point that touchpads are bad at replacing sticks over and over again is a textbook example of a strawman. I agree with you on it, it is irrelevant, it doesn’t score you any points against what I am actually saying.
Correct, yes, we all agree here.
Playing non-controller games from the couch or in a handheld form factor. Lmfao
This is where we disagree and what you have not actually made any points on that support your opinion that touchpads do not solve this effectively, besides it hurts your thumbs, which is a you thing, really
No, friend, the argument you’re making is that Valve didn’t sell it based on its ability to replace sticks or mice, which is what is incorrect.
Also, there are no points. This is a conversation, not basketball.
Explain to me how we can simultaneoulsy agree that it’s not a great mouse replacement and you can still claim that it’s a good solution to play non-controller games.
What non-controller games are these that don’t rely on a mouse? Have we been arguing about your Donkey Konga or Typing of the Dead controller all along?