The Trump administration has reportedly paused all military aid to Ukraine.

The decision, reported by Bloomberg News, comes after a meeting between Trump and Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky at the White House on Friday descended into chaos, the latest in a larger fraying of the U.S.-Ukraine alliance.

The president is reportedly reviewing whether Zelensky is willing to engage in good-faith efforts at making peace with Russia, a Defense Department official told the outlet.

  • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
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    2 days ago

    Saying that people who are kidnapped off the streets, who cannot leave the country (other than trying to cross “illegally” through mountains/rivers), who cannot vote, whose medias are controlled, saying that they are free is so fucking cruel.

    Trump is the people’s only chance of survival in Zelensky’s concentration camp.

    • sugar_in_your_tea
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      1 day ago

      None of what you mentioned has anything to do with freedom. Freedom isn’t defined by what you can do, it’s defined by what you can’t do. If they capitulate to Russia, they’ll permanently lose essential freedoms.

      Yes, the situation is bad, I get that, but it should be the Ukrainian people who decide when to tap out. Russia will keep harassing them, and they will never be safe without strong allies.

      • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
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        1 day ago

        None of what you mentioned has anything to do with freedom.

        What? Being able to move freely has nothing to do with freedom? Not being kidnapped and forced into the meatgrinder has nothing to do with freedom? Being able to vote for your representatives has nothing to do with freedom? So, a person who cannot do any of the is free in your opinion? I guess we have a veri different definition of freedoms then.

        If they capitulate to Russia, they’ll permanently lose essential freedoms.

        So, how do I sign up to lose the “freedoms” I’ve described above?

        should be the Ukrainian people who decide when to tap out.

        But we can’t. Only Trump and Putin support us having a vote, everybody else prefers we have no say.

        • sugar_in_your_tea
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          19 hours ago

          Everything you mentioned is due to the war. If we roll back the clock to before the war, which country was more free? If the war ends today, which country is likely to be more free?

          I think Ukraine wins in both (esp if we remove issues due to Russian bullying). It wasn’t some paradise of freedom or anything, but they had a lot more voice in their government.

          Only Trump and Putin support us having a vote

          Neither do, they both want concessions. Trump seems to want resources, and Putin wants land and no NATO expansion. Neither wants what’s best for Ukrainians, they want spoils of war.

          • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
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            17 hours ago

            Neither do, they both want concessions. Trump seems to want resources, and Putin wants land and no NATO expansion. Neither wants what’s best for Ukrainians, they want spoils of war.

            They both want there to be elections in Ukraine so that we can vote. Zelensky (with support from Europe and previously USA) wants to continue being a dictator without elections.
            Zelensky will not stop the war until the very last of us dead. As long as there is cannon fodder he will continue.
            So don’t matter how bad Trump’s deal will be, no matter how much concessions will be given to Putin, it’s still better than continuation of Zelensky’s regime (and war as a direct consequence, with millions dead and wounded).

            • sugar_in_your_tea
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              5 hours ago

              Zelensky (with support from Europe and previously USA) wants to continue being a dictator without elections.

              Is that actually true? Because that sounds like a very pro-Russia take and doesn’t really jive with the approval ratings I’ve seen, which are still positive (trending down, but still positive).

              The problem with elections is they just aren’t feasible without a ceasefire, and Russia isn’t interested in that. So if an election happens in the current climate, it’ll be heavily biased and I don’t think anyone will really accept the outcome. Russia wants a pro-Russia stooge, Europe wants someone pro-western, Zelensky wants to remain in power, and I think Ukraine will want someone else soon if Zelensky can’t end the war. It’s a crappy situation, but if Zelensky wins, there’s no way Russia accepts the outcome.

              I don’t know much about Ukrainian politics, so I don’t know what alternatives there might be. But I do know Ukrainians should decide that, and that’s not feasible if Ukraine capitulates to Russia.

              • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
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                28 minutes ago

                Because that sounds like a very pro-Russia take

                It doesn’t make it false.

                doesn’t really jive with the approval ratings I’ve seen, which are still positive

                You believe in “approval ratings” from a country which people are forbidden from leaving, where people are mass kidnapped off the streets (and then either die or get tortured by Zelensky’s regime), where news media are censored (you are basically getting sent to die if you write something Zelensky does not approve of).
                What other fairy tales do you believe in?

                The problem with elections is they just aren’t feasible without a ceasefire

                Dozens of countries did elections in the wartime (including US). This is only an excuse for Zelensky to stay in power.

                and I don’t think anyone will really accept the outcome

                USA and Russia are literally pushing for those elections, they will accept them. Most of the countries would probably do the same (except a few EU countries maybe) if USA/Russia tell them to.

                But I do know Ukrainians should decide that

                But that’s exactly what I am trying to tell you - we CAN’T decide that. You literally support a dictator that prevents us from deciding anything. How are we supposed to decide anything if we cannot vote??

                • sugar_in_your_tea
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                  1 minute ago

                  You believe in “approval ratings”

                  It’s the best I have. The alternative is believing Russian propaganda, who are the aggressors here. Collecting accurate polls is nigh impossible though.

                  kidnapped

                  Don’t forget that Russia also uses conscription too and has similar issues, and the US did as well. This isn’t some crazy, unique thing in Ukraine.

                  Dozens of countries did elections in the wartime (including US)

                  I can’t speak for others, but the US hasn’t been occupied since 1812 (unless you include territories during WW2), and the election of 1812 didn’t have issues because the British were largely fighting defensively for most of the war.

                  After a quick check, it seems the UK postponed elections by extending parliament’s term during WW2 until 1945, after the Germans surrendered but before the Japanese surrendered. So there’s absolutely precedent here.

                  USA and Russia are literally pushing for those elections

                  And both are going to heavily interfere and neither will accept the results if it’s not what they want.

                  How are we supposed to decide anything if we cannot vote??

                  And how is your vote supposed to count if you’re sandwiched between two superpowers each heavily invested in the outcome of the election? The war needs to end before a proper election can happen, and just ending the war now won’t likely benefit Ukraine long term with no major side considering Ukraine’s interests (Russia wants land, no Zelensky, and no NATO, US wants mineral rights, Zelensky wants to stay in power, and EU countries want a NATO border w/ Russia).

                  It must absolutely suck being in Ukraine right now, but regardless of who is selected to mediate, Ukraine will lose.

    • Spacehooks@reddthat.com
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      2 days ago

      Or offer to give Ukraine 2 nukes if Zelensky steps down.

      Or help Ukraine join a bigger organization that can help them. offer them statehood like Canada.

      Better yet invade Russia right now. They can’t even take Ukraine. That will end the war.

      but no let’s stop them from getting weapons over minerals rights and offer no alternatives. So Russia keeps everything and more Ukraine lives are lost over something they didn’t choose. Russia is not known for forgiving population that gave them trouble. Just look at east Berlin.

      • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
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        2 days ago

        give them nukes / start WW3

        That’s a very good idea, but only as long as only people supporting this are going to die. So, you know, you but not me.

        more Ukraine lives are lost over something they didn’t choose.

        So let’s stop the war so that lives are not lost.

        Russia is not known for forgiving population that gave them trouble. Just look at east Berlin.

        Are you trying to tell me that people on liberated territories have it worse than people on Zelensky controlled territories? That’s absolutely incorrect. People on liberated territories are free and can leave at any moment. People on Zelensky’s controlled territories can’t.

        • Spacehooks@reddthat.com
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          2 days ago

          WW3? who’s supporting Russia? A country that can barely support a war effort with increasing the age recalling vets, up aged of conscription to 30, and using prisoners to fight battles. This whole thing started because Ukraine gave up the nukes they had in 1994 for protection that they didn’t get. America is was them what is agreeded upon. Russia is not. If you can’t honor a deal then give back the nukes.

          We both agree on stopping the war but bend over to appease the aggressor is not the answer. That didn’t work with Hitler either.

          • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
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            2 days ago

            WW3?

            So what in your opinion is going to happen if NATO/USA invades Russia? They will just give up and not nuke the shit out of NATO/USA?..

            We both agree on stopping the war but bend over to appease the aggressor is not the answer.

            Well, it doesn’t look to me like that…
            “End the war now by signing a peace deal” and “end the war that has been going on for three years where one side has been almost constantly losing more and more ground by trying to make that side win the war and return all lost land” are almost the exact opposite opinions if anything…

            • Spacehooks@reddthat.com
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              1 day ago

              So you agree nukes are great deterrent. Let’s pass some to Ukraine. In fact maybe for them mineral rights. If trump wants a steep price it should be worth it. And no I don’t even think Russia has functioning nukes based on their performance in Ukraine.

              Well Russia hasn’t respected any cease fire so I doubt they respect anything that isn’t backed up with Ukraine joining nato or nukes.

              • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
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                1 day ago

                And no I don’t even think Russia has functioning nukes based on their performance in Ukraine.

                In other words you want to gamble on millions, or possibly billions of lives.

                I’d be up for it but only if you were gambling on your own life and loves of your friends/family/etc., not on my.

                • Spacehooks@reddthat.com
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                  22 hours ago

                  Lives are being gambled and lost daily right now. Russia has lost 850,000 troops. No one cared about their lives. They had family, friends, etc. That’s why war is bad. That fear of upping the Ante is why Russia invaded. Pass Ukraine some nukes and see if they back off long enough to get real protection. Nuke their own border or something.