How can I talk anymore? Is it time to start pronouncing the first “d” in Wednesday?

  • southsamuraiEnglish
    51·
    2 days ago

    Here’s the thing for me.

    English borrows words all the damn time. And their spelling shifts as much as the pronunciation.

    While the original French definitely lacks the n, and is pronounced different as well, the n is in there, depending on the specific French accent.

    Go visit chef Jean Pierre on YouTube. The whole “onyo” thing they do. The man is clearly not saying on-yo, with no other sound at the end, but there’s people that think that’s what he’s saying. He ends it with that nasal n sound.

    And, some French people pronounce restaurateur with that nasal n thing as well. Not all of them for sure, but it does exist.

    At some point in the past, it would be accurate to say that restauranteur would be incorrect, because it simply wasn’t the accurate spelling for the word. But now? It’s an alternate spelling in English, for the word that is pronounced with a regular n sound in English.

    Correct and incorrect don’t really apply at this point, it’s standard and alternate

    Now, I’m fully behind Wodinsday coming back :)

    • Melatonin@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPEnglish
      4·
      2 days ago

      I believe the language ought to be descriptive not prescriptive. But I’m not an absolutist about that. It’s kind of weird, but I don’t like some things that have happened, like flammable and inflammable. They just seem lazy and I feel like we should have forced correctness down people’s throats on that one.

      Aren’t the French notorious for wanting language to be prescriptive? I may have that wrong, my information is probably from the late 1960s early 1970s. Lol.

    • Zachariah@lemmy.worldEnglish
      3·
      2 days ago

      This reminds me of the pushback I give when people try to standardize on “fora” and “octopi.”

      Although these were the plural of “forum” and “octopus” in Latin and Greek, now that they’re english, the common pluralization of adding -s/-es is more appropriate in nearly every usage: forums and octopuses.

      Using Latin and Greek pluralization at this point is weird.

      • dustyData@lemmy.worldEnglish
        2·
        2 days ago

        You could argue all you want about it being a common pluralization. But the fact is that it doesn’t matter, language users have no responsibility to use logic or make sense. You say something, if people understood it, then that’s the way it is. Everything else is prescriptivism’s anal fixations. The fucked up discrepancy between written and spoken French is their fault. The madness of English spelling is their fault. Bunch of stuck up academics who had the power to force others in the education system to follow their logic. Now a bunch of shit doesn’t make sense. Because common people will talk however the fuck they want as long as they make themselves clear and you can’t do anything about it.

        • Zachariah@lemmy.worldEnglish
          1·
          1 day ago

          I’m all for standards, but they’re for very specific contexts. And something can either meet the spec or not. It’s okay to post that out. That doesn’t mean it is right or wrong.

          Even language that hasn’t been formally standardized can be out of spec. Just try using very formal language when texting in the middle of a relaxed chat.

    • merde alorsEnglish
      2·
      2 days ago

      And, some French people pronounce restaurateur with that nasal n thing as well. Not all of them for sure, but it does exist.

      never heard of this phantom n. The word “restaurer” is a common verb and you go to “restaurateur” from the verb, not back from “restaurant”.