Summary
Donald Trump declared on Truth Social that he was voiding Joe Biden’s pardons for Jan. 6 committee members, calling them “VOID, VACANT, AND OF NO FURTHER FORCE OR EFFECT.”
He claimed Biden’s use of an autopen made the pardons invalid, citing unproven claims from The Heritage Foundation. Legal experts note that a president cannot revoke a predecessor’s pardons.
Biden issued them to shield officials from politically motivated investigations.
Trump, who has repeatedly threatened prosecutions, accused the committee members of wrongdoing and suggested they be investigated.
There’s nothing that says Presidential Pardons need to be in writing. Biden just had to direct the right people to offer a pardon to an individual which can then be accepted or declined. That can be verbal, electronically communicated, or in writing, but a signature from the President is just a formality and definitely not required, so the autopen/esign argument is a totally dead argument.
Just more criminal conduct from the felon in chief.
So if auto pens mean that the document isn’t valid, does that mean the same thing for DocuSign, or other e signatures?
Does this mean that billions of contracts and documents signed this way are null and void?
How is DocuSign supposed to be a signature anyway? It’s not your handwriting, and there’s no cryptographic proof either.
Check out e-signatures like we do them in Estonia. The document has a cryptographic signature belonging to the person who signed it, with a date. Change the file in the container and the signature is no longer valid. It makes physical signatures pretty much obsolete because it’s easy to use and WAY easier to prove that the signature is not fake.
There are issues of course - someone who knows your PIN2 could steal your device and sign something before you can get the certificate revoked. You do need to keep your PINs secure.
Can I get all my taxes back then, because I’ve been esigning taxes since 2006.
Ok SovCit
What’s gone stop him from sending his goons to arrest political opponents? They’re at the ignoring the courts step in the process right now.
Nothing. I can see the future and I see what everybody is refusing to believe - Trump will not be gone in 4 years. Congress can’t hold him to account (because half of them are collaborators) and the court’s orders can’t be enforced. Best we’ll get is a stern tut-tut from Democrats while more and more rights will slip away at an alarming pace. Sure, the constitution SAYS you have the right to certain things, but if Trump violates those rights by ordering people below him to carry out unconstitutional acts, who will come save you? Not congress, not the judiciary, not the SCOTUS, not the police, not the military.
We’re fucked. It’s over.
What’s gone stop him from sending his goons to arrest political opponents?
The fact that his political opponents are already toothless.
Boot licking allies is the term you are looking for.
That’s the unfortunate truth; once a court order is not enforced, you are already past the point of no return. One of two things follow, either a new dictatorship, or blood.
Likely, both
Court order not enforced and no reaction from the public. Why would they stop?
FTFY: “Court order not enforced and no reaction from the
publicelected officials that are meant to represent the public. Why would they stop?”Dont put your future into other peoples hands. Its your future and rights that are at stake.
I understand your sentiment and it is especially poignant these days, but that is literally the only reason they exist in the first place. If we need to take action (which I agree has now reached that point) their position should be eliminated as they have made themselves redundant.
If you want to have future elections and chose better candidates, this is the time to act.
Court order not enforced and no reaction from the public.
Er… There have been numerous protests and outrage at GOP townhalls and other places
The public is mostly powerless as long as the regime is willing to point and use firearms. thats their go-to card.
you can bet that the regime is also planning on giving out military equipment for fighting against crowds too, tear gas, firehoses, and microwave / sonic weapons like what was seen in Serbia recentley.
you can bet that the regime is also planning on giving out military equipment for fighting against crowds too, tear gas, firehoses, and microwave / sonic weapons
Hate to break it to you, but our police have been militarized with military gear for decades. During the massive George Floyd protests in 2020, the police used all of those weapons against crowds (except microwave, but they definitely used some type of sonic/sound crowd control weapons).
Learn with the french
Do you have any numbers? Because the numbers for the 50501 protests seem really small to me as a German.
Props to those who organize and participate of course!
I’m going to quote a previous comment of mine from ~ a month or so ago.
The US has a larger population, but its also massively larger. There were thousands in LA - tens of? No idea. But into the thousands across multiple protests.
That said, it usually takes a bit for momentum. The Great American Boycott (aka a day without an immigrant) had about a million people 20 years ago, but had large scale planning and coordination in other countries as well. The Floyd protests were in the tens of millions of participants, but that was also over a few years of protesting during the pandemic.
Then add in the short timeframe provided on this one (less than 2 weeks if you knew about it early, mostly the day or two before for many more) and its a solid turnout.
This is more like everyone getting to Berlin and protesting, but without good public transportation infrastructure and super short notice. So let’s take that Oklahoma example from earlier - hundreds were there. The population of OK is about 4 million people for the whole state. In terms of population, its about the middle most populous of all states. So this is like the population of Berlin, spread across a state about half the size of Germany.
I know the US is different than Europe, that’s why I mentioned my POV.
And I still don’t really understand it, because the numbers are really very different. Oklahoma City (without the metropolitan area) is about as big as my as my hometown Bremen. We just had protests because our chancellor-to-be collaborated with the fascist party - we were about 1500 people, with about 24 hours notice. Big protests are up to 25000-50000 people. And as you said, other protests in the US were way bigger.
So I don’t think “time for preparation” is an important factor, especially as it is not really a surprise that Trump became president and is doing shitty things. Unless protests in the US are more complicated for some reason I don’t see yet?
From an outside perspective, I would guess it’s more about work culture - people being burnt out, no protections from getting fired. This might lead to less of a protest culture culture overall maybe. Which is also weird, because the US also has seen some very well known and successful protest movements.
Bonus: current Hollwood movies always seem to make it a point that the protagonist is very much trying to not get involved. I wonder what that says about the (current) culture in the US.
Time to prepare is very important because we have crap labor laws. It can be very hard for people to get time off work and missing a day can be very painful. For folks living paycheck to paycheck, missing a day of pay means missing a rent payment or not being able to afford food. In a lot of jobs, time off is very limited, even for illness, and is highly likely to be unpaid.
The robber barons have done an extremely good job at nailing our bootstraps in the pits of Tartarus through debt and indenture.
I get that, thats why I was referencing a prior comment as an example.
Worker protections are one thing - living paycheck to paycheck is another. Taking a day off work for some is the same as quitting, and they literally can’t survive without a paycheck. Because a sick day isn’t necessarily covered, they could be hourly. They could be considered part time. Lots of possibilities.
Let’s stick with Oklahoma for a minute though - Oklahoma City is pretty republican to start. Its even more republican than its neighboring cities. So let’s say youre in Bremen, and about 60% - right off the top - were in support of the AfD collaboration. I don’t think the CDU+AfD have that kind of support in Bremen, but maybe I’m wrong, I think its closer to 25% or so?
Most people there are not college educated - 2/3rds. The bulk of the support for the protest would have been (based on voting data) people who are middle income, educated, living in the suburbs. People who could also lose their jobs for showing up at a protest if one of their coworkers found out, because yes, worker protections have been systemically eroded.
And yet, that area still got a few hundred people out on short notice.
I’d call that a win.
I haven’t looked into hard numbers, I just know there have been various protests around the country on an almost weekly basis. They definitely should be bigger, but due to the enormous size of the US, our shitty city/suburban design, our shitty public transport systems, and most people barely living check to check, organizing and executing massive protests is quite difficult.
German population density map: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Population_density_in_Germany.png
U.S. population density map: https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archivo:US_population_map.png
1 square mile is about 2.6 square km, so 2500 people in one square km is about 6500 people per square mile.
So we are to believe that each J6 felon Trump pardoned was signed by hand in something other than Sharpie?
Also why bother with the investigations, they investigated Biden for 4 years and despite the “overwhelming evidence of high crimes and misdemeanors” they couldn’t even name one, let alone provide evidence. This is just Trump trying to get his base focused on something other than how he is screwing them despite their support.
Don’t even engage with the “wrong kind of pen” argument. It’s a prime example of fascists wasting your time debating words spoken in bad faith to distract you while they round people up in the streets.
Obligatory Sartre quote:
Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.
Don’t even engage with the “wrong kind of pen” argument.
It’s the equivalent to SovCits arguing that a Court is invalid because the flag has the wrong color fringe on it. The people who spout that nonsense aren’t worth the effort or time to engage.
focused on something other
Perhaps how constituents got absolutely hammered by extreme weather, tornados, etc, over the weekend as he simultaneously dismantles weather science funding and aid, while also denying that climate change is an issue. Or possibly deporting legal immigrants, against specific instructions not to, in some real transparent dictator type behavior.
Honestly, at this point, people can deny it all they want but climate change isn’t something that “might happen” it’s already happening and will continue to happen because we’re doing our damnedest to make sure it does. I’m in socal and the climate here is already markedly different from what it was ten years ago.
The honest problem is that the hyper-wealthy just don’t go outside or do anything meaningful. They are in climate controlled buildings and vehicles 24/7. They don’t cook. They don’t feel price fluctuations in goods. Their home(s) are numerous and in the best areas, but even that is moot, as they are rarely at home. They travel and work constantly, and are never subjected to anything but the finest accomodations. Their world is very controlled, and orderly, and pleasant. They literally live in a different reality. They don’t get it. And yet, they control the environment us regular people live in/are subjected to. Our struggles are trivia to them. Mere inconveniences. We’re just obstacles in their way. Our displeasure is just a “notification” to clear. Whatever they can do to shut us up, or get us off their case, they do that. Right and wrong be damned. The future be damned. By the time it effects them directly and they are forced to deal with consequences, our corpses will be components of massive burning heaps.
Considering how lazy he is I don’t know if he wants to set a precedent for all government documents signed with an auto-pin being invalid. Not that precedent has ever mattered for republicans
He is lazy, but he LOVES signing things. He even has special sharpies made so he can sign things better than anyone else.
you think that but look up his signature it’s obviously done by a machine like most fuckin people these days
Are they crayons?
No, because he would eat the crayons.
No, of course not. Can’t have him getting distracted from advancing his handlers’ agendas by handing him a snack, now can we?
That’s it Diaper Don, leave yourself no way out by questioning the legality of pardons. True genius at work here.
The only way this goes wrong for him is if he leaves office. He has no intention of allowing that to happen.
He has no intention of allowing that to happen.
The Grip Reaper comes for all. He’s an obese 80 year old; modern medicine is only going to prop him up for so long.
Trump does intend to die in office. That’s the point. That’s his full plan.
But that death could be 10 years from now. Elections are pretty much over.
Elections are pretty much over.
Insert Thomas Jefferson quote here.
Everybody go on social media and proclaim Trump isn’t president. Musk’s kid said so
Spoken out loud in the oval office. Sounds official to me!
“The necessary Pardoning Documents were not explained to, or approved by, Biden,” Trump added. “He knew nothing about them…"
Funny enough we could just ask Biden about this, and even given an outright ‘yeah, knew, read, and would do it again’ Trump would spin up some other excuse to say it was fake, or a clone, or whatever other madness comes to mind.
But in the Conservative Cinematic Universe, Biden is a doddering old fool who is unaware of his surroundings. This is God’s Own Truth, and nobody will convince them otherwise.
If you ask Biden about this, on camera, and he responds, they will conclude it must be an AI fake, or possibly a Robot Biden. Then they will freeze-frame on some instance where he is looking in the distance and insist he was sundowning.
Someone blow that orange muppets brains out. Fuck sakes America.
Everyone things he’s a hero and would time travel to kill hitler. It seems like they only say that because they know time travel isn’t real
Vance might be even worse
What works once might work twice…
I declare bankruptcy!
Hilarious to bemoan autopen when this senile imbecile is signing everything looking like Hammmmmmmy Sammmmmiieeess.
