If MAGAts were going to change, they would have. They are only “feeling bad” because something King Dipshit has done is affecting them now.
They will continue to vote for republikkkans and continue to drag our society backwards or at least be a stone around the neck of progress.
Do not trust or forgive. If they want to do some good now, ofc let them, but don’t be fooled. They’ve shown who they really are.
Anyone who is catastrophically stupid enough to be swayed by someone like Trump is not a potential ally. They are, at best, a liability.
lol. This author has never been on lib lemmy. The “resistance” is mostly just leopard jokes. Not much to offer victims…
Being cordial with them is fine, working with them to protest right now is fine.
But let’s not forget that they are at best temporary allies. That don’t actually share any values, they’re just upset that the administration isn’t hurting the right people.
There will be a scant few that truly not vote for a Republican and that’s about the best you can expect, be prepared that they continue to vote hard R in the end.
They’re the “independents”… they’ll vote for whoever comes along and tells them what they want to hear and they’ll not investigate further.
This is why Bernie got so close. Trump’s messaging is cathartic for them. “We’re gonna get the guys who did this to you!” Trump yells, standing behind the guys that did this to them.
Bernie’s messaging was “Shit has been bad for a long time. Let’s fix it. Tell me your problem and we’ll work something out. The rich fucked you over. We’re gonna make them pay taxes.”
Dems if they want to stay one party, need to find that messaging again. Hell Dwight D Eisenhower could get elected as a dem these days.
Shit’s fucked.
The only politeness and welcoming behaviour a 2024 Trump voter will get form me or anyone I know is a false welcoming to the resistance before being snuck out back and shot like the Nazis they are
They’ve had 10 years to not be Nazis, they don’t get another chance
ETA: Shocker, .world is a Nazi-loving space
Liberals keep trying to do this. The Nazis will join you temporarily and then turn around and vote for the very next Trump. It is an extremely small minority that actually changes their views, and they are welcome.
And how do you get the Nazis to even consider joining you?
Appealing to them.
Do we need the Democratic Party sliding further to the right?
No.
This thinking is a result of thinking that there is a simple political spectrum. There isn’t… Most voters are far too simple minded for voting that way. They vote for the other party when they are unhappy. That’s it. That’s all the decision making they need. They voted for Trump in 16 because they didn’t like the status quo (What simple working person is happy with the rich getting richer and the rest of us getting nothing but rising housing costs?). They voted for Biden in 20 because he wasn’t Trump and Trump really fucked up his time in the white house. Then they voted for Trump again because Biden didn’t change things.
The Democratic party can appeal to a lot more voters by abandoning a status quo that no longer serves the masses. There is a reason there were people who voted for Trump and AOC on the same ballot. They are people who are upset by the status quo and want change, even if that change is burning it all down and starting over.
We should give them change, because if we don’t, they will vote for change from the fascists.
There are too many of them for us to kill them all. We simply can’t kill 1/3 of the country… We have to find a way to build a society with most of the people who voted for Trump still being in it.
Now, for the ultramaga, proud boy types… I don’t hold back on solutions to the problems presented by that smaller population.
While I hear you, and there are definitely some voters that will never, ever, ever change their mind - I encourage you to direct this energy toward the elected ones who continue to lie to their base and capitulate to the billionaires/Russia/etc.
I completely agree.
Some of us out here are truly harm reductive and are sewing faces back on. We all need to band together before the leapords start coming for our throats.
They’re included in that, they’re just not the subject of the thread
I misunderstood the thread then. The original post didn’t have the edit it does now.
Mutual Aid relies on mutual security. Investigate someone’s language and demeanor before including them in praxis.
What resistance, the Democrats?
I’m really really sorry, now that the leopards are eating my face…
A University of Massachusetts-Amherst poll of 1,000 people from early April found that just 2% of Trump voters say they regret their choice and wish they had voted differently.
Jesus Christ…
The reality is that a person in a cult leaves it quietly. At the start of the process, they have doubts and fears but repeat the mantras about how they’re still absolutely a member of the cult.
And we’re seeing that. We’re seeing people upset about what’s happening, yet claiming they still support him. That’s what a person leaving a cult actually looks like – doubt, self-assurance, and then quietly quesstioning it whilst acting to their peers that they’re still believers. They’re not necessarily aware that this is the beginning of them leaving, many want their leader to reassure them of those doubts, and get slowly unsettled when they don’t.
If you ask them point-blank if they renounce their faith, they’re not willing to admit it publicly. That’s too real. They’ll just slowly fade away, and try to live like it didn’t happen.
Which means if you want people to leave a cult, you have to let them do it quietly. Even if its hard, if you’re angry and want to punish them. If they’re giving up a community they know accepts them, it won’t be to join a community that never will.
I hope you’re right… However, history has shown that these people vote and they always vote R, no matter how awful the party is. It seems really hard to get them out of that habit.
And most of them would rather die before voting for someone with a “D” next to their name.
Just wait for the store shelves to empty this month. That number will go up.
It’s a cult. I’m not surprised.
I wonder if that 2% was because they were directly impacted by him. Additionally, I assume most haven’t changed their minds because they came in knowing that there would be hard times ahead.
With that said, I live in a very r area and have been keeping tabs on the flags. My grocery store started selling us flags last month and now there are new houses with flags. They didn’t have them up at all before.
Shouldn’t be turning people away that are apologetic, but don’t think the path to victory lies there. All the people that are sitting out elections are the ones that should be targeted. So few of eligible voters are actually doing so.
Disagree if you want, but I’ve felt this way and have been saying some variation of this (but perhaps not as eloquently) pretty much since November of 2024.
Granted, in the immediate wake of the election, even I didn’t think things would be this way, at least not so soon. As soon as he took office, anybody with half a brain cell could see, first-hand sans conjecture, just how much of a disaster we were in for. I was like, at this stage, we’re going to have to root for the hamberders to do their thing and in the mean time we’re going to have to turn the other cheek and accept those Trump voters who come to regret their vote. If there are enough of them, and they genuinely see an apology as a path out of the cult, there’s a better chance of turning things around.
That’s the right thing to do. Making it easy for people to accept that they were wrong makes it much easier to pull support from the opposing party. If you constantly ridicule, mock or insult them, they are much more likely to stick with their opinion simply because they do not want to accept that you were right.
A vast majority on lemmy should learn this aswell.
A vast majority on lemmy should learn this aswell.
from what i’ve seen, yes people are angry but people are willing to accept apologies that aren’t based entirely in leopards eating faces… you don’t get a pass for your shitty ignorant behaviour just because that behaviour comes to bite you in the ass
you get to apologise and have it accepted if you’ve seen the harm that’s been done to other people and are genuinely remorseful
Getting apologies would be nice, but it starts with acceptance. Right now, if a Trump voter can accept that they messed up or were led astray, and they can be convinced to join the resistance, that’s all I care about. I care less about hearing an “I’m sorry” than I do about having more people on the streets today - actions speak louder than words, and to turn down someone who’s joined our side over something as petty as “Have you apologized yet?” would do little more than push people away.
We need a united front right now, and just as former Trump voters have to suck up the bad feelings of having contributed to this mess, we have to hold off on purity-testing our fellow protesters and accept that to fight the oligarchs, it takes all of us, regardless of our feelings toward each other.
(i feel like i do need to start flagging that im an australian citizen, living in australia so this… kinda ain’t my place… but also, over the last 70 years the US has made it the worlds place without giving us much of a choice… point being, providing external POV without actually having intimate knowledge of culture etc etc)
i can agree with that: deal with the problem at hand… but what happens in 4 years time? let’s assume that the US doesn’t descent into complete dictatorship for an indeterminate amount of time (because if so any discussion is irrelevant)… what do you do then? you’ve won: do you live and let live? or what if MAGA tries to stay in power and causes a violent conflict? from what i understand, a lot of the current situation is buoyed because you allowed the confederates to maintain their identity during reconstruction
if the democrats get voted in in 4 years, the problem isn’t gone: the same people that voted trump didn’t suddenly gain a new found empathy for their fellow man… do you let it slide because the current crisis is dealt with and through a combination of luck and incompetence it somehow worked out?
Nah fuck that
We dont need traitors in the mindst. Why would you allow traitors into your resistance. We don’t need the trumpers to take back america. There’s more of us then there is of those traitor fucks.
They are Nazis. Plain and simple see them everyday in Florida with their Trump stickers and nazi flags.
Curb your extremism.
Why would you allow traitors into your resistance
They aren’t “traitors”. Many of them fell for propaganda. Do you unironically believe that parents are voting for trump when they know their parents will be deported? Do you think that illegal migrants will vote for trump when they know they will be deported?
Stop with your edgy hardliner attitude. This is how you create rifts in society.
They are traitors…they voted for a traitor???
Did Trump bot steal top secret documents?
Did Trump not commit sedition?
Did Trump not fill his cabinet with Russian agents?
Traitors. Including you for defending them.
And to answer your questions yes you idiot Trump said he was gonna do all those things and the very same people voted for him still. Shows the racism and bigotry of this country.
So fuck you.
Sure they voted for a traitor, but where do you want democrats to look for votes? The left?
Did Trump bot steal top secret documents? Did Trump not commit sedition? Did Trump not fill his cabinet with Russian agents?
Probably did all that, but that’s not what he’s marketing it as. I don’t think you understand how voting works for many people - they don’t watch every a politician says or does, they watch the stuff that is shown on TV, read a few flyers and that’s it.
Traitors. Including you for defending them.
I’m not defending anyone. I’m telling you that your shitty attitude and your wannabe edgy 16-year old “IM NEVER GOING TO FORGIVE THEEEEM!!!11” is not helping turning the situation in the slightest.
Also, I’m not american. Can’t really be a traitor to a country I don’t belong to.
And to answer your questions yes you idiot Trump said he was gonna do all those things and the very same people voted for him still.
Okay, then please riddle me this - why would an undocumented immigrant vote for someone that is publicly announcing he wants to kick them out? Maybe because he phrased it in a way that implied that it’s not going to affect them?
Shows the racism and bigotry of this country.
No, it shows that elections in america are more of a entertainment show than a political event.
So fuck you.
No you.
This is how you lose. If you don’t allow people who wake up and turn away from the naziism a chance to do so, you’ve stupidly removed the opportunity for there to be fewer Nazis
If you don’t allow people who wake up and turn away from the naziism a chance to do so
They’ve had 10 years, stop pretending that this is their first awakening opportunity
Nazis get thrown in the chipper. Were nice to them and pretend to let them into the revolution before leading them into rooms full of the Zyklon B their Führer loved so much like they deserve, end of story
Last I checked it took a world war to stop the Nazis but go on.
Il see yall during the revolution.
That’s what happens when everyone rolls over and let’s them keep breaking laws. We’re not there yet.
Uhhh remind me again whose president?
Oh right a convicted felon who breaks laws.
We already are there.
There’s more of us then there is of those traitor fucks.
I highly doubt this. Sure, there are more people opposed to Trump than there are Trump supporters. But Trump supporters are more cohesive and easier to mobilize. When it comes to getting people off the couch - particularly to achieve goals through violence - I expect you’d be outnumbered at least 3 to 1.
people are willing to accept apologies
Absolutely not, at least not online. People do not accept apologies, they will brand you based on that action, no matter how much you apologize. I mean, just look at some big example like pewdiepie who had a few (admittedly tasteless) moments in 2017, apologized for it multiple times but is still framed as nazi to this day.
apologies don’t mean you’re sorry… people that express a sincere point of view, are called out on their shit take, and then apologise to save face are still pieces of shit: they didn’t apologise because they realised the things they said were wrong; they apologised because they got called out and want to fix it
i’m not saying that apologies from public figures can’t be sincere, but the bar is pretty damn high because what they stand to lose by not apologising is so large that people tend to take a hit to their ego - saying something they don’t mean - rather than express their true feelings
So you want people to apologize, but don’t believe them when they do?
nope i’m saying that every apology is not equivalent… simply saying you’re sorry isn’t enough… they need to have learned their mistake, not just that they got hurt and wish they didn’t
And who’s the judge of apologies? Who determines which apology is enough? How can you tell they haven’t learned?
hey mate i ain’t sayin i have the answers - im just sayin yall better work something out because otherwise you’re all fucked and you’re just in for trump after trump after trump
I feel like this is a deep flaw in humanity. That most people would rather continue eating literal shit than admit they were wrong.
Many people would be willing to admit that they’re wrong, however, if the “opposing” side is constantly mockign and ridiculing you, yeah, I can see why people don’t want to admit that.
I wonder what sort of studies have been done on this. I found a few with a quick search about admitting being wrong- IT seems to correlate with humility like you would expect. Also admitting fault also sometimes makes people like you more, contrary to the belief that people will think you suck if you admit fault. Though maybe not for politicians, oddly.
A vast majority on lemmy should learn this aswell.
The vindictiveness and hate for anyone who slightly disagrees by some on here is only matched by Reddit users. It makes sense I guess
That’s exactly it, it’s actual hate. It’s not just “bro your opinion is stupid, you’re a moron, piss off” and be done with it. Nah, many people on here genuinely hate other opinions. They’re fully adopting a fascist mindset while thinking they’re on the “right side”.
It’s genuinely worrying to see that ngl.
Literally like edgy 4channers
not hating misled trump voters is actually a really good idea and more people need to try it
not saying that the actually insane ones arent worth hating, but some people are just maga bc everyone they know is
Everyone makes mistakes, those that can admit it are rare. Those that can forgive rarer still. And both should be role models.
as long as admitting your mistake isn’t entirely based on leopards eating your face
“they’re hurting the wrong people” isn’t remorse
Yup
So you’d rather those who are changing their minds because they are feeling the pain driven back to supporting this shit?
What does a path out of this look like to you, considering about 1/3 of the US voted for this (or seems plausible that that amount voted for it)?
Those upset that they are being hurt when it was supposed to be everyone else. Are no ally. Saying it was wrong to seek harm to others is very different than saying “I wasn’t supposed to be hurt”. They can be useful, but they don’t have remorse.
you have a systemic problem… idk what the path out is, but if you simply forgive people who changed their mind only because they got directly hurt by this shit they aren’t going to vote differently next time: they’ll follow the next fascist who might not be quite as incompetent
1 man isn’t the problem; the entire GOP enabled this shit… you think ron dessantis would have been better? you’ve got an entire administration actively enabling this and the entire GOP refusing to act against clear violations of the constitution and law
this
is
WAY
bigger
than the next 4 years
Being combatitive with them, deserved or not, will result in them being combatitive right back. Being gracious when they admit they aren’t on the right track might mean they’ll be more open to listening next time around. And, more importantly, it might mean being able to solve this current issue.
You’re right that it’s bigger than the next 4 years. But it’s bigger than the GOP, too. It’s the latest iteration of a conflict that’s been going on probably since before recorded history: some people want to control and rule everyone else, some are OK with it (or even support it), some want to prevent those people from gaining control and seek that power to keep it out of their hands (and in many cases end up becoming what they wanted to avoid), and others just want to be left alone to do their own thing (which might not hurt anyone or might make life worse for anyone around them). I don’t see any end to this struggle, the only thing that changes is who has power right now and how hot is the conflict.
Be the change you want to see.
Edit: I mean it as a challenge to the rest of us
Always words to live by
those that can admit it are rare.
They’re really not. Maybe among politicians… But it’s a basic requirement of being a functioning adult human imo.
Talk about a low bar…
You. I like your optimism. But I don’t share your experience apparently. A lot of people don’t. About the best I tend to get from a lot of them after I start asking a lot of questions that poke holes in their beliefs. Is silence.
Never once have they admitted that they could be wrong or that there’s a chance I might be right. And as soon as they go back to spend time with their cult. The next time I see them it’s like it never even happened. They’re it back to insisting the same absurd positions. Because they never actually acknowledged or considered that they could be wrong.
It’s not even limited to or that unique to right Wingers. Plenty of gaza activists still to this day refused to admit that the hyperfocus on Biden and Harris was a mistake. Or that by doing that they may have helped Trump win. The field was so flooded with Hyper focused partisan propaganda. That many Palestinian Americans honestly somehow thought Trump would be better and voted for him. But as is basic human nature it’s never their fault. It’s always someone else that shit their pants.
What should we do with the ones who voted to hurt others but now want to change sides because they’re being hurt too? Should we ignore the very likely possibility they’ll jump right back to the other side when the Republicans backpedal just enough to no longer look so blatantly shameless? Let them turn against Trump on their own, I just want to keep my distance from these people before they likely disappoint us in the next election cycle.
“There’s an old saying in Tennessee—I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee—that says, ‘Fool me once, shame on…shame on you.’ Fool me—you can’t get fooled again.”
Mr President another plane hit your other braincell
That’s fantastic. This encourages taking personal responsibility over their action. I think it’s important to allow people to learn and grow, without the shame. Shame keeps people locked into their false beliefs. The more apologetics we have, the faster change will come. With that said, don’t forget these people. They still have fucked up beleifs.
Fucked up beliefs that are rooted in fear of losing what little they have. The class war affects them as much as us, and the more people who realize it, the more well equipped for revolution they’ll be
I agree.
I feel that on our end, it’s going to be more important than ever that it’s not just what we say but how we say it that will actually change how those who voted for Trump will feel.
People are capable of self reflection, but if you don’t believe it then you’re helping them to have no shot at it.I have learned that people tend fulfill my expectations of them, so if i want them to do better i have to genuinely expect better of them and treat them with utmost compassion when they miss the mark
Yall maybe forgiving but not i any and all Trump voters are traitors. Because you cannot stand there and listen to this man commit sedition
Say shit like “i have a concept of a plan”
And still slap knee “gosh darn it that is the man I must vote for president what a patriot!”
Fuck that. Cowards all of them. Every single one in gov. And every single voter.
Remember the women who slept with Nazis and after the war? That’s Trump supporters.
Just don’t say you used to support the guy and do your part to try to get him legally out of the whitehouse along with his admin buddies.
I think there’s a difference between someone who voted trump and realized they fucked up in a like deep , systemic, way, and someone who doesn’t like this specific implemention of right wing stuff.
Like, if they regret trump but keep voting R, that’s not good.
If they’re genuinely apologetic and recognize they made a terrible choice, then yes… Welcome back to reality.
