Im wondering if this is a common adhd thing.
For example, I have always wanted to program, but I can’t let myself start with some easy gui building block code. I need to understand how the code is interacting with the computer itself and know how they did it in the 80s. Then of course it’s too hard for me and I give up.
Or if im making music, I need to do everything from scratch the hard way, making it as hard as possible (and killing any creative effort i had in the beginning).
It’s the same with anything. I can’t progress if I dont know the absolute reason why something is being done. And if I do it the easy way, I didn’t do it right and took shortcuts so it was worthless.
I can fix programs without knowing their use if that counts.
I never understood how programmers had no clue how the hardware worked. How can you write high performance code without understanding memory access optimization and opcode pipelines? Why even attempting rewriting old Fortran array code to C and then to C++ without understanding that Fortran array code fits cache lines just fine, while your newly shiny refactored code doesn’t, so now you wonder why your code performance sucks?
This is the stuff I wish I knew. Oh to be old !
It is ok to “cheat” even if you know the “real” way it should be done. It took me ages to come to grips with this but you can get over it too. There are still hobbies I won’t pursue because of this mentality though like drawing.
Yeah it’s hard. Because if I can cheat to do it easy, So can everyone, and then why do it at all.
I am this way completely. If I don’t fully understand all the details of something, I have no chance of remembering it. Elementary math classes were difficult in college because they infrequently included formal proofs, but as I progressed into more advanced courses I found I really loved math. The formal proofs made the difference. I need to be convinced that something is true; I can’t simply take it at face value.
I failed algebra 3 times haha, never got a solid base on math sadly. I understand it if it’s applied to something, but I literally couldn’t even do long division right now if I tried
Algebra came easy to me. I came to realize even in elementary school we were doing algebra even if they didn’t use that name. Simple arithmetic like 2 + 5 = ? Is algebra if you think of the ? As X.
Then it’s 2 + ? = 7.
After that, at least to me, it’s order of operations and just moving things around.
Same. Geometry I had major issues with because of proofs, but could use algebra to solve almost anything they threw at me.
I don’t know if it applies to people with adhd, but there is this theory that people with autism have weak central coherence. That is, they have a tough time dealing with broad strokes and assembling context into a comprehensive picture of reality. This manifests in simple things like preferring instructions like “buy one dozen eggs” over “buy some eggs”, to more complicated things like understanding that someone is joking when there’s a thunderstorm out and they say “nice weather”. Oftentimes, people with autism are very detail oriented, and uncomfortable with missing puzzle pieces.
For me, this reveals itself very similarly to what you describe. If I want to center a div, there’s a good chance I’ll be looking up how css works, then at the eBNF form of css, and then probably the Chomsky hierarchy, and then probably set theory bc the formal language theory book I picked up uses it, at which point I’ll probably be lead to learn about Russel’s paradox and so on. It’s debilitating.
I don’t know if you’re autistic (although there is like a 60% comorbidity with adhd), but I do know that folks with autism experience the same thing. I don’t have a solution for you, but you could potentially find tips on dealing with this on forums for autistic people.
Definitely could be. A specialist only deemed me mildly adhd. But I feel like I cover it up super well. And it’s worse than they think
I’m like that and one of my friends as well. We’re both not diagnosed but strongly suspecting AD(H)D, and I’m also diagnosed with autism.
I can’t count the times I started trying to learn programming and ended up quitting for that very reason - but every time I did I knew a little bit more. So I just tried to learn my way and next time I wouldn’t need to look up asuch and got a little farther. But I also have the luck of having programmer friends who don’t mind trying to answer my sometimes very unusual questions, and over the several attempts I’ve learned enough to be able to work in test automation.
If you have patient and encouraging people around you you’ll eventually get there :) don’t go for ui at first, look for console programs so you can get to things like conditions and loops quickly. That’s where the meat is for me.
TLDR: commit to a course.
For the last two to three years I tried a couple of times to get into Python on my own. Each time I find the very basic steps extremely boring. And once I come to a bit more complex question I am like: you didn’t teach that yet! Since I am interested in biology, I want to look into data. I tried my hand on already published stuff but often felt like I am not making anything new, just copy pasting.
The last year I took 2 day classes and are now in a “full on learn 5 month from scratch programming course”. The first two weeks were rough because we went over the very very basics in a slow tempo. And now the “fun” stuff starts.
One day we had a a different tutor and he showed us that some cities (in Germany) provide public data to their citizens. And that this is a good resource. I checked for my city and I have plenty of csv files to choose from. Just waiting to be made into a graph. It helped me stay engaged in the first two weeks. Did I code it myself? Hell no. ChatGPT was a huge help. The haters will tell me I just “vibe coded” but I had so many error messages to work through I think I learned a lot while analysing the data and going back and forth checking if anything made sense. The gist of it is that I am now committed to a course, where I have to show up every day (online). I still often feel like a failure when I don’t understand a question and it is hard to judge if the others are as lost as I am. But it is also kind of fun and having others going through the same makes it more tolerable.
For me the commitment part was the issue. I’m still working on figuring out how to trick my brain into cooperating with commitments. Having a team that was looking forward to my suggestions and ready to rely on it ended up being the one thing that worked. But this is obviously not easily replicable.
I understand that. I find it hard to commit myself to something which I don’t burn for. I can start a huge crochet project let’s say because I want to gift it, it has a clear start and end (starting a magic loop -> finished product). My driver for the programming was: you are unemployed, they got you the course, if you don’t go your unemployment benefits would be cut. And I rather choose my own course instead of being pushed to do something I don’t like. I don’t enjoy the programming, but I enjoy pretty data. If I was still working I wouldn’t have started. So the stars aligned.
Similar here, except I suggested a course and they accepted and paid for it (Software Testing). The programming is what I enjoy and want to pursue.
you should try Harvard’s CS50 course. Does a good job at covering essentials of computer science, not just programming
I tried that several times but it never worked out for various reasons. For me I really started growing once I was working and had a team that was happy I wanted to learn more and answer my questions.
Ooh! Get an Arduino/electronics starter kit! You’ll learn how computers worked in the 80s. Then you’ll be able to move on up to say, Python in no time 👍
I should do that. My problem is what to make. There’s a billion things and it’s all been done already, so I just don’t know what I’d want to even do
Pick something in your daily life that you want to make more convenient. Start searching for tutorials, necessary hardware, and related coding.
Even something simple like, “I wish I didn’t have to turn on my fan because it’s in the corner.” Boom: look into building a motion sensor that runs a fan, and maybe it connects via a USB port for power.
Convince yourself it doesn’t need to perfect. It just needs to create a convenience that happens to teach you something.
I would find and follow a tutorial. They give you the “what” to do and you can go down rabbit holes of research connecting the why/how. Then when your done, you are starting with some knowledge/understanding which makes seeing possible applications easier.
I’m the same way. I can’t just know how to do something, I need to know why I’m doing something.
I can’t just blindly follow instructions or I’ll never learn. I need to understand everything so that I can find more efficient ways to do the thing I need to do. This is a common frustration I have in the workplace.
It’s put me at odds with some managers, until I got high enough where it became a target and I could determine the path to get there.
I hated managers who wouldn’t tell me the why, because I’d inevitably hit something that doesn’t line up with my training and I’d have to apply the why’s to determine what to do.
I always have the feeling that there is “no time” to start in the beginning. “I SHOULD know that already”, “I’ll pick it up on the way”, “It’d take too long to start there” and other excuses.
But experience tells a different story: When I dare to start at the very beginning, no matter how small, it often lead to great success, while jumping into the middle never got me anywhere.
In your concrete situation with programming: After getting a grasp with BASIC and Pascal in the late 80s, I wanted to learn Assembly and really understand it. And so I did. And it was not wasted time. (Except for macro assembler, aimed at really using it for big projects; could have skipped through that and just used the old MS-DOS debug tool.) Some of my most fond memories with the PC were not fancy UIs I developed, but how I wrote a 10 byte long program directly into the MBR of a floppy disc and booted from it to execute it, without loading any OS.
Later with C, C++, Java, I also focussed on the core language and libraries, only then moved on to UIs and big frameworks. And it did me a great service once more. I notice people around me who skipped through the Java fundamentals in less than a week and got right into a big framework - even 10 years after, they have odd misconceptions and knowledge gaps that hinder their development.
But I also respect that there are different approaches that work better for other people.
You could also go a middle way, for example: Set a weekday that is for “core research”. But don’t try to “wing it”, won’t work. It needs to be an automated reminder on your calendar, a differently marked column on your habit tracker, whatever you use.
I’m this way 100%. Feels like I’ll be able to do it better and be less distracted by questions if I get to know something from the ground up, and just doing it a certain way because everyone agrees it works that way is never satisfying/I never feel like I can trust that completely.
Yea, can strongly relate. Hindered me a lot during my school years. I just couldn’t do anything without knowing the reasoning behind it. In the way I function, any amount of work is dictated by a need, and if the need -or the rationale, is never presented to me, then I fail to tackle the problem. I love solving problems, but they need to be real, applied.
Yeah. I have found the prototype perspective can help. The idea being that this first attempt is part of the learning exercise and you will redo it “properly” the second time. It helps prevent building a emotional mountain of requirements to get started that only exist in my head. It’s kind of an mindset of knowing you will mess up the first one and that is OK because it is expected and a required part of the process.
In programming you do not need to know the inner workings in order to use something, in fact most people use abstraction to make a project more manageable and modular.
Also don’t learn anything before you start a project because it’s too boring. I always start a project and learn things I need to learn along the way
Starting a project which you actually find interesting and will really use, will also help with following through. There will be boring parts to it but the excitement of having something usable will overshadow any negative feelings.
I have this problem. You are being a perfectionist. Some advice I have gotten that helps is trying to make something intentionally bad. It think it was from Simone Giertz’s TED talk. She said that trying to make Shitty Robots was easier because she couldn’t mess up, they were already bad.
https://youtu.be/GEIvFfeSjuE behind the scenes, idk where the full vid is.
Another thing to remember with programming is that bad, but working code will always be better than no code.
I’ve wanted to learn the guitar my entire life, but I can’t just start slow and easy with some chords, I keep going all in trying to learn classical guitar simultaneously with music theory because chords seem too simple and I hate myself… I didn’t mention the research phase where I learned all about the origin of the instrument and its importance through history.
One thing I can help you with. If you learn bass first, you really learn the structure of songs, and it helps make guitar even easier. Don’t worry about theory honestly. My friend is super into theory and im not really, and we both make complex music. Theory is just words for what you’re already hearing.
May I introduce you to prog?
Covet and CHON are a good place to start for instrumental math rock; I reccomennd effloresce and Homey, respectively.
From there I’d suggest Plini, Intervals, and Arch Echo to add some grit.
But if you really really want to hate yourself and break your guitar over you knee? Id like to introduce you to Tosin Abasi;
Just start playing and keep playing. I’ve been playing 25 years and have only picked up basic music theory but still have a blast.
