Seriously though, the USA is virtually always bad.

  • JohnDClay
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    6
    ·
    1 year ago

    There are a few literal Nazis on both sides. Ukraine doesn’t have any in the government or high command apparatus.

    Why is the meat grinder unnecessary? Should Ukraine just give up it’s sovereignty and become part of Russia? If not, the war remains necessary.

    • robinn2 [he/him]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      59
      ·
      1 year ago

      There are a few literal Nazis on both sides. Ukraine doesn’t have any in the government or high command apparatus

      Zelensky thanked and did a photo shoot with the Nazi Andriy Biletsky (leader of the Azov Battalion, said his goal is to “lead the white races of the world in a final crusade… against Semite-led Untermenschen”); Zelensky also wears and advertises Nazi merchandise [1] [2]. And Ukrainian parliament and Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine openly celebrate Nazi collaborator Stepan Bandera (he has monuments all over Ukraine). So your claims of no Nazis in govt or high command are completely incorrect.

      “Nazis on both sides” is nonsense, and before the war demanded every western source to support Ukraine, the Neo-Nazi problem in Ukraine was widely publicized and documented [1] [2] [3] [4]. Clearly the US realized how many Nazis there were in Ukraine to the extent that they lifted regulations on congressional funding of Neo Nazis when supporting Ukraine. Maybe before giving up it’s sovereignty Ukraine can try to remove its monuments to Nazi collaborators, purge Nazis from office, and stop being a U.S. vassal state.

      • JohnDClay
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        That’s not surprising for during the cold war.

        • Sephitard9001 [he/him]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          46
          ·
          1 year ago

          TIL that supporting nazis is okay if they hate your opponent

          Why are nazis aligned with your interests and why do nazis oppose your rival? Doesn’t matter, repeat your mantra, “We are the good guys”.

        • emizeko [they/them]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          39
          ·
          1 year ago

          nice handwave. even if that excused pushing and helping nazis (it doesn’t) you ignore the last 30 years they were doing it after that. very convenient

    • Annakah69 [she/her]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      36
      ·
      1 year ago

      Dude, Valerii Zaluzhnyi literally has 2 busts of Bandera in his office.

      Tldr, the commander of the armed forces of Ukraine is a nazi.

      • JohnDClay
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        Prigozhin has Nazi eagle tats off the top of my head.

          • JohnDClay
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            No, he’s the Ukraine asov group that got wiped out, right?

            • robinn2 [he/him]@hexbear.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              36
              ·
              1 year ago

              No, Prigozhin and Utkin were both Russian “Wagner”, both killed in the plane crash. Both bald too lmao so I understand the confusion.

              • duderium [he/him]@hexbear.net
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                18
                ·
                1 year ago

                Holy shit I didn’t know that that Utkin piece of shit was on that plane. He was the only guy liberals could come up with when they were saying that Nazis were also in Russia too (although he had not been seen in public since 2016). Once again I must express my critical support for Putin, especially when he’s mercing Nazis. Odd that liberals haven’t praised Putin for doing this, since I thought they hated Nazis?

          • JohnDClay
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            But he was Russia inner circle. Till he decided to try and coup.

              • JohnDClay
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                Favored by Putin and given special latitude. You aren’t going to start a pmc without serious political capital, plus Putin had been commissioning them for a long time.

                • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]@hexbear.net
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  21
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago

                  Do those words mean anything? Favored? Latitude?

                  And the strength of these connections is why hiring and then killing off a mercenary makes the Russian government the nature of being nazis in the same way Ukraine having actual nazi politicians in charge does?

                  Why do you argue so fucking far past the point it’s obvious you’re wrong? You’re an entire branching comment tree in this post. You never give up on a single point but you’re getting bodied left and right.

                  • epicspongee [they/them, he/him]@hexbear.net
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    3
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    Why do you argue so fucking far past the point it’s obvious you’re wrong? You’re an entire branching comment tree in this post. You never give up on a single point but you’re getting bodied left and right.

                    I’m laughing so hard I almost shat my pants reading this thread

                  • JohnDClay
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    Do you think Progodion was not important in the Kremlin? It’s really hard to sort out the web of connections and allegiances, but it seems like Progodion was pretty important, and getting more important and dangerous as Wagner gained notoriety.

    • MaoTheLawn [any, any]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      31
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Poll by Rating, a Ukrainian research institute, shows positive opinions of Stepan Bandera (Jew exterminating Nazi) soaring from 22 per cent in 2012 to 74 per cent in April 2022. (post maidan revolution in 2014)

      Those opinions are stronger the further you get away from Russia. They are weaker in Crimea and Donbass.

      The left wing parties in Ukraine have been banned.

      Russia isn’t trying to absorb Ukraine. They would absolutely broker a deal to take back Crimea and Donbass and leave the rest. A significant number in those places are ethnically russian (it’s the largest ethnicity proportion in the area ~ 39%) and a higher proportion than just ethnic Russians are open to becoming part of Russia (~49%)

      some sources:

      https://www.newstatesman.com/world/europe/ukraine/2023/01/ukraine-stepan-bandera-nationalist

      https://www.researchgate.net/publication/280134876_Terrorists_or_national_heroes_Politics_and_perceptions_of_the_OUN_and_the_UPA_in_Ukraine

      https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/15/russia-ukraine-donbas-donetsk-luhansk-public-opinion/

      • JohnDClay
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        I’m doing it you mean?

        I’m pointing out it’s nonsensical to site getting rid of Nazis as a justification to invade when you also have the same problem. What about ism brings up unrelated wrongs, this is showing hypocrisy.

        • MaoTheLawn [any, any]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          12
          ·
          1 year ago

          I don’t see people on here saying Nazis are the reason it started so much. Most people’s take is that Russia is lashing out against encirclement by opposing powers, and also to annex parts of Ukraine that according to polls, don’t want to be part of Ukraine anymore.

          Western funding of Nazis is just a tried and tested mechanism of levering power against a state.

          It’s not the reason that Russia started their offensive, but it is a fact that the CIA funds right wing militants to fight on the behalf of the USA’s economic interests. They have done so time and time again throughout history, from Europe to Asia to Africa.

          Now, as Ukraine rules with western support, they have outlawed left wing parties. This has rather predictably ended with higher rates of admiration of the Nazi Stepan Bandera, the repeal of labour laws, and the mass privatization of the country.

          This is typical economic shock doctrine. If Ukraine wins, its people will be the new low wage manufacturers and workers for the world to use and discard for profits. If Russia wins, it’s also not great at this point - they’d likely be contending with western funded guerillas, and who knows if Russia would actually reinstate the repealed labour laws and left wing parties, given that Russia itself is a capitalist oligarchy.