First, there is no rule that a worker co-op taking care of its workers will be less profitable than an exploitative company. At first glance, it seems reasonable. But it’s not a truism. For example, a well-taken care of worker is likely to be more productive than one who feels exploited.
Second, profits are not how companies compete. Profits are by definition the extra money that goes into the owners’ pockets. Companies compete in many different ways; quality, marketing, price, etc. The fact that there are many successful worker co-ops in capitalist nations should provide some evidence here.
Third, one could imagine a nation that mandates that all companies are worker co-ops. They would still be profit-driven private companies, but would be controlled by the workers (who would also be the ones saying the profit).
You’re missing the point that those successful coops are only successful to the extent they are profitable within the larger capitalist framework, which means worker consideration will be secondary and most importantly they have to compete with capitalist enterprises that engage in heavy exploitation and wage suppression
As long as the capitalist profit motive survives it will in general win against those firms that don’t engage in exploitation and wage suppression and limit the growth of competing coops, it’s creates a ceiling for genuine worker friendly coops and ties them to the greater capitalist network in the form of regulating capitals
Profitability is the be all and end all of capitalist enterprise, the methods of competition are irrelevant (quality, marketing, price, etc) unless they produce sufficient profit, otherwise from the logic of capitalism there’s no point in initiating the enterprise in the first place, this is the direct consequence of capitalist ownership of the means of production
Your mistake is assuming capitalist markets are a universal phenomenon that can be controled by all classes, that’s not true, capitalist markets only exist as the result of a specific form of property relations, the logic that drives workers and the logic that drives capitalists are not the same, workers want their wages to raise, capitalists want profit, wages cut into profits, do you see the contradiction of the coop capitalism you’re imagining?
Coops can’t grow when regulating capitals limit their potential, and workers won’t self-raise their wages if it means the over-arching profitability of the company is at stake hence threatening unemployment, in the world you’re imagining the workers would still want to do away with this self-shackling profit system that limits their ability to grow and sustain themselves
You’re making a hell of a lot of assumptions, both about me, and about the nature of reality.
You’re also spouting a lot of nonsense. “The logic of capitalism” is a meaningless phrase. You’re attributing a lot of assumptions onto something that just means “the means of production can be privately owned”.
The fact of the matter is that there are existing, successful worker co-ops. That alone disproves most of your claims that you take as axioms.
Ok, there are actual implications and definitions behind the terms you’re throwing around haphazardly, fact of the matter is you don’t know what you’re talking about, that’s fine, you don’t have the relevant knowledge of economics or theory, technical or historical, so a lot of what I said probably went over your head
So let’s clear up some basics, there is a logic to capitalism; private ownership of the means of production is the framework, profitability is the fuel and commodity production is the output, those aren’t assumptions, that is the “nature of reality” under capitalism
And finally I didn’t say there are no successful coops, read more carefully, I said they’re only successful to the extent they are profitable and are limited by competing firms that act as regulating capitals, firms compete by cutting costs or increasing productivity, but productivity is tied to technical developments, so that can’t always be relied on, but cutting costs i.e. wages is always the first resort, hence the disadvantage for coops who theoretically value worker compensation over other more common capitalist concerns
I’d add also an inherent necessity in Capitalism’s stability is the marriage of concentrated riches with the state’s power and its monopoly on violence. Should worker co-ops ever seriously threaten the wrong bourgeois lot, restrictive laws that only apply to the co-op will appear, unlawful actions will go ignored, state officials will be pressed to harass, legal means will be levied, etc, all until the co-op is tanked. ‘Successful’ worker co-ops are only ever permitted to the point where they don’t meaningfully threaten any bourgeois power, profit is paid no heed in these situations.
First, there is no rule that a worker co-op taking care of its workers will be less profitable than an exploitative company. At first glance, it seems reasonable. But it’s not a truism. For example, a well-taken care of worker is likely to be more productive than one who feels exploited.
Second, profits are not how companies compete. Profits are by definition the extra money that goes into the owners’ pockets. Companies compete in many different ways; quality, marketing, price, etc. The fact that there are many successful worker co-ops in capitalist nations should provide some evidence here.
Third, one could imagine a nation that mandates that all companies are worker co-ops. They would still be profit-driven private companies, but would be controlled by the workers (who would also be the ones saying the profit).
You’re missing the point that those successful coops are only successful to the extent they are profitable within the larger capitalist framework, which means worker consideration will be secondary and most importantly they have to compete with capitalist enterprises that engage in heavy exploitation and wage suppression
As long as the capitalist profit motive survives it will in general win against those firms that don’t engage in exploitation and wage suppression and limit the growth of competing coops, it’s creates a ceiling for genuine worker friendly coops and ties them to the greater capitalist network in the form of regulating capitals
Profitability is the be all and end all of capitalist enterprise, the methods of competition are irrelevant (quality, marketing, price, etc) unless they produce sufficient profit, otherwise from the logic of capitalism there’s no point in initiating the enterprise in the first place, this is the direct consequence of capitalist ownership of the means of production
Your mistake is assuming capitalist markets are a universal phenomenon that can be controled by all classes, that’s not true, capitalist markets only exist as the result of a specific form of property relations, the logic that drives workers and the logic that drives capitalists are not the same, workers want their wages to raise, capitalists want profit, wages cut into profits, do you see the contradiction of the coop capitalism you’re imagining?
Coops can’t grow when regulating capitals limit their potential, and workers won’t self-raise their wages if it means the over-arching profitability of the company is at stake hence threatening unemployment, in the world you’re imagining the workers would still want to do away with this self-shackling profit system that limits their ability to grow and sustain themselves
You’re making a hell of a lot of assumptions, both about me, and about the nature of reality.
You’re also spouting a lot of nonsense. “The logic of capitalism” is a meaningless phrase. You’re attributing a lot of assumptions onto something that just means “the means of production can be privately owned”.
The fact of the matter is that there are existing, successful worker co-ops. That alone disproves most of your claims that you take as axioms.
Ok, there are actual implications and definitions behind the terms you’re throwing around haphazardly, fact of the matter is you don’t know what you’re talking about, that’s fine, you don’t have the relevant knowledge of economics or theory, technical or historical, so a lot of what I said probably went over your head
So let’s clear up some basics, there is a logic to capitalism; private ownership of the means of production is the framework, profitability is the fuel and commodity production is the output, those aren’t assumptions, that is the “nature of reality” under capitalism
And finally I didn’t say there are no successful coops, read more carefully, I said they’re only successful to the extent they are profitable and are limited by competing firms that act as regulating capitals, firms compete by cutting costs or increasing productivity, but productivity is tied to technical developments, so that can’t always be relied on, but cutting costs i.e. wages is always the first resort, hence the disadvantage for coops who theoretically value worker compensation over other more common capitalist concerns
That buddy is a form of systemic logic
I’d add also an inherent necessity in Capitalism’s stability is the marriage of concentrated riches with the state’s power and its monopoly on violence. Should worker co-ops ever seriously threaten the wrong bourgeois lot, restrictive laws that only apply to the co-op will appear, unlawful actions will go ignored, state officials will be pressed to harass, legal means will be levied, etc, all until the co-op is tanked. ‘Successful’ worker co-ops are only ever permitted to the point where they don’t meaningfully threaten any bourgeois power, profit is paid no heed in these situations.