• Sotuanduso@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    In this context, it’s matters related to government, politicians, or the general culture of a country, in which there are two or more major camps of conflicting opinions, where a good deal of people in one or more of those camps view the other camp as evil because of their view.

    If the post is in a community where only one of the camps is significantly present, but the post is attacking the other camp, it is still political.

    Why do you ask? Are you hoping to expose some inconsistency in my definition? Maybe use it to call something I like political with the expectation that I’ll disagree with you? Or were you expecting my definition to be biased, calling something political that shouldn’t be, so that you could expose me as a moustache-twirling villain?

    • Adkml [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      So we can’t post memes about … checks notes the general culture of our country?

      So no memes about anything with literally any specifics.

      You realize if you got your wish memses would just be “how many of yall like breathing”

      Maybe you could point us to an example of an acceptable meme with no politics involved.

      • Sotuanduso@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Earlier in this thread, I said:

        We complainers aren’t saying they can’t post about politics, just requesting they post their political memes in the designated political meme space.

        I also clarified that it has to be contentious, in a way where people condemn each other for thinking differently.

        Here are some non-political memes posted in this community in the past hour:
        https://lemmy.ml/post/5184036
        https://lemmy.ml/post/5185652
        https://lemmy.ml/post/5185650
        https://lemmy.ml/post/5186256
        https://lemmy.ml/post/5186204

        That’s 5 of the 6 memes posted in that timespan.

          • Adkml [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            Here let me give you the codex.

            When this person says “political” they mean “things I dont agree with”

          • Sotuanduso@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            I don’t think “I don’t like my job” is politically divisive. You don’t really get people up in arms about it unless you’re complaining about capitalism or work in general. Even boomers have their “I’d rather be fishing” meme about it.

            • ProxyTheAwesome [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              I don’t think “I don’t like my job” is politically divisive.

              This is absolutely a political statement. Your work and conditions are political and can be changed only through seizing control and unionization, both political actions.

            • Alaskaball [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              With the division of labour, in which all these contradictions are implicit, and which in its turn is based on the natural division of labour in the family and the separation of society into individual families opposed to one another, is given simultaneously the distribution, and indeed the unequal distribution, both quantitative and qualitative, of labour and its products, hence property: the nucleus, the first form, of which lies in the family, where wife and children are the slaves of the husband. This latent slavery in the family, though still very crude, is the first property, but even at this early stage it corresponds perfectly to the definition of modern economists who call it the power of disposing of the labour-power of others. Division of labour and private property are, moreover, identical expressions: in the one the same thing is affirmed with reference to activity as is affirmed in the other with reference to the product of the activity.

              Further, the division of labour implies the contradiction between the interest of the separate individual or the individual family and the communal interest of all individuals who have intercourse with one another. And indeed, this communal interest does not exist merely in the imagination, as the “general interest,” but first of all in reality, as the mutual interdependence of the individuals among whom the labour is divided. And finally, the division of labour offers us the first example of how, as long as man remains in natural society, that is, as long as a cleavage exists between the particular and the common interest, as long, therefore, as activity is not voluntarily, but naturally, divided, man’s own deed becomes an alien power opposed to him, which enslaves him instead of being controlled by him. For as soon as the distribution of labour comes into being, each man has a particular, exclusive sphere of activity, which is forced upon him and from which he cannot escape. He is a hunter, a fisherman, a herdsman, or a critical critic, and must remain so if he does not want to lose his means of livelihood; while in communist society, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, herdsman or critic. This fixation of social activity, this consolidation of what we ourselves produce into an objective power above us, growing out of our control, thwarting our expectations, bringing to naught our calculations, is one of the chief factors in historical development up till now.

              • Marx. The German Ideology.

              Tl:DR work under capitalism fucking sucks because it’s exploiting us and not fighting for your liberation is politically divisive

              • Sotuanduso@lemm.ee
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                1 year ago

                Well by that logic, merely saying “I have a job” is a political statement.

                Also I’m not reading all that, thank you.

            • Adkml [he/him]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              “I don’t like my job” is so political people bled and died to the american government for your right to not have to do it 80 hours a week as a 12 year old.

        • ProxyTheAwesome [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          First one is about technology and alienation under a capitalist mode of production, discussing work and leisure. That’s political.

          Third one is about dating and advertisements online, which is related to sexual politics and commodification of sex work online. Political.

    • Infamousblt [any]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      You’re pretty upset that I asked a question aren’t you? I wonder why that is.

      Government and politicians I think are pretty self explanatory and I would agree those are inherently political, no argument there.

      What do you think is part of a general culture of a country, or not? How would you define culture that has conflicting opinions? Is it solely up to your discretion, or would you agree that if anyone has any disagreement about a meme that would make it automatically political?

      Is this one political because it references the FBI, a governmental organization? https://startrek.website/post/1847371 I would argue that it is political.

      Is this one political because it references culture related to advertising in capitalism? I would think everyone should agree that any reference to or commentary of an economic system is inherently political because of course economic systems are controversial. I don’t see how anyone could argue that references to a combination of two major brands isn’t a commentary on marketing: https://programming.dev/post/3200916

      I mean this one references politics so it’s clearly political right? https://lemm.ee/post/8502748

      I’m just curious about what you and others think is political versus not. You can’t have a discussion about if something should or should not be allowed if you can’t clearly define the boundaries of that thing. I find the discussion around what is and isn’t politics to be an interesting one, that’s all.

      • Waker@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        I think can answer the memes questions for you.

        1. Non political
        2. Non political
        3. I guess it could be considered political in a way, but it doesn’t target a specific party or opinion so I’d let it through.
        • Alaskaball [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          Lmao. The FBI: famously non-political government organization that murders activists as easily as one can breath air.

          And Microsoft: famously non-political company that bribes lobbies the u.s government constantly to gain monopoly over their market, works hand-in-hand with federal agencies to monitor system users, and regularly influences city, state, and national politics in the pursuit of subsidies of the American worker in order to further boost their already gross profit margins.

          • Waker@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            I’m not disagreeing that some companies can have a political impact on the world.

            Those memes in particular, aren’t focused on the political aspects. You have to be missing a brain in order to miss the point there.

              • Waker@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                There’s no point arguing with you since you can’t understand the basic concept of what the point of a meme is nor can you read what I previously wrote.

                • UlyssesT [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                  1 year ago

                  since you can’t understand the basic concept of what the point of a meme is

                  You think the basic concept of a meme is an increasingly stale chuckle you get while being in an ever-smaller bubble world because the world outside of that is scary and uncomfortable to you. grillman

                  • Waker@lemmy.ml
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                    1 year ago

                    What? This is a community for memes. Political debate isn’t memes. Simple as that.

            • Adkml [he/him]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              No you have to be missing a brain to think monopolies don’t have anything to do with politics.

              Stealing a line from something I saw earlier. If you don’t like the memes just ignore them like you do the homeless people you walk by, non-politically.

              • Waker@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                I never said they don’t have anything to do with politics you dumbfuck. Re-read my post.

                • Adkml [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                  1 year ago

                  Ok I re read the part where you said

                  1. Not political

                  And interpreted that to mean you didn’t think it was political.

                  If that wasn’t the intent you should work on communicating more clearly, or not being mad when people correctly read what you posted.

                  • Waker@lemmy.ml
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                    1 year ago

                    Oh god. How thick can you be? I meant the MEME isn’t political. Never said anything about Microsoft or other big companies.

                    You did not read correctly, indeed. The question was if the meme was political, not Microsoft.

        • Infamousblt [any]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          But I think they’re political. Is my opinion on what is and is not political invalid for some objective reason?

          • Waker@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            You’re entitled to your opinion. It doesn’t make it less wrong though, the content of the memes is clearly not political.

              • Nelots@lemm.ee
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                1 year ago

                Acknowledging the fact that politics exist is not inherently political. Please explain how that third meme is even remotely political?

                Regardless, the lack of a clear and simple political-or-not binary is not an excuse to avoid moderation. The political nature of some things will be argued and some things will slip through the cracks. It happens with all spectrums. But on the other hand, some things are so clearly political that it’s nigh impossible to argue they’re not. I’m sure you can see the massive difference in a meme about Microsoft shoes and a meme about Trump or Biden bad. Those clear extremely political memes are the ones people want banned to their own communities.

                And to be clear, I actually like political memes. I just find your rebuttal to be in bad taste.

                • Infamousblt [any]@hexbear.net
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                  1 year ago

                  So basically you want to go with “whatever the mods think in their gut is political, is political” and expect that you’ll have a well moderated community with that as your rule?

                  I mean, you do you, but that doesn’t sound like a recipe for success to me.

                  If you have to ask why the 3rd meme is political I encourage you to go read the thread beneath it. Look at how much discussion and conflict it caused. It’s clearly political and basically that entire thread’s discussion is proof positive.

              • Waker@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                They are wrong because those memes aren’t politic. They are not mentioning any party or political affiliation in any way.

                Do companies influence politics? Absolutely. But that’s not the point of the meme.

                • Infamousblt [any]@hexbear.net
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                  1 year ago

                  Got it. So only memes that directly mention a political party or political party position is political.

                  Since there are many communist parties across the globe, that means that any post referencing capitalism is political since making any statement on capitalism is political since it’s related directly to the party stance of political parties around the world, both pro and against.

                  So the Microsoft Nike crossover meme is political by your definition. Glad we agree!

      • Sotuanduso@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Not upset, just suspicious because I’ve seen you asking that question a lot.

        Obviously what I consider political is up to my discretion, but I’m pretty sure the general definition does not include contentious memes, and mine doesn’t either because I gave a clause about one side considering the other side evil because of it.

        In general, if a person asks themselves “is what I’m posting political?” they can answer correctly 95% of the time, and the 5% of edge cases won’t upset 95% of the complainers.

        • Adkml [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          That’s an awful lot of words to implicitly say “it’s not political if I agree with it”

          “If a person asks themselves is this political they can answer correctly 95% of the time.”

          Yea turns out it’s easier to answer a question correctly if you’re deciding I’d the answer is right or not.

          • Sotuanduso@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            That’s an awful lot of words to implicitly say “it’s not political if I agree with it”

            Where are you getting that?

            • Adkml [he/him]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              Where you said your test is asking yourself if you thought it was political and saying you were right 95% of the time.

              • Sotuanduso@lemm.ee
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                1 year ago

                What I meant was that anyone can ask themselves if it’s political, and 95% of the time they’ll get it right by the standards of 95% of the people who don’t like politics.

                • Adkml [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                  1 year ago

                  Ohh so it’s at the discretion of people who “don’t like politics” if it’s political or not.

                  Dont worry I’ve seen those “non political” people talk a lot so I know what you mean.

                  Like how there’s two races. White and “political”

                  So as long as what you post doesn’t offend straight white people it isn’t political, but if it does then it is.

                  What a refreshing and original take.

                  • Sotuanduso@lemm.ee
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                    1 year ago

                    You’re kinda misconstruing what I’m saying a lot.

                    Everyone has their own threshold for what’s political. Some people say everything is political. Some people say it’s only political if it relates to conflict between politicians.

                    I’m saying in 95% of cases, 95% of people can agree on what is and isn’t political.

                    When people complain about political memes, they’re usually complaining about blatantly political posts, like ones making fun of the republican party, not memes that happen to feature Black people.