“Fought Russia in WWII” hmmm 🤔
I mean, there were others fighting the Russians, too.
Perhaps he was an Italian fascist instead
Could’ve been a Finn during Winter War or a Pole. Wasn’t though
If the guy was Finnish I’d high five the shit out of him
(Actually, even that gets dicey. WW2 was kind of a mess)
Winter War is easy and clean, Continuation War is fucked.
Absolutely fucking not. Waffen-SS members are war criminals not hapless stooges.
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That’s neither here nor there. The Canadian government’s complicity only implicates Canada and clears no one.
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Just as there are such things as political prisoners, there are such things as political pardons. Judicial my ass; it was political.
And just as before, whatever the politicians & pundits are raving is neither here nor there. The guy voluntarily joined the Waffen-SS Galicia Division.
Yeah he volunteered to to be solider, so what? Being a solider is not the same thing as being a war criminal and the burden of proof still applies. War is messy and it is entirely possible that this division committed atrocities that haven’t been proven but the mere possibility is not sufficient reason to label him a war criminal. You are de-meaning the term by doing so.
Either you have specific evidence to support your charge or realize you are participating in sensationalism.
He didn’t volunteer to join the regular army and be a regular soldier, he volunteered to be a Waffen-SS paramilitary Nazi soldier, which is quite another thing.
You are painting an overly simplified picture. Look up Günter Grass if you don’t believe me.
TLDR: He non forcefully signed up for the SS, although disagreeing with the Nazis. Later he became a nobel prize winning author and member of the famous Group 47. In his publications he tries to get people to think for themselves - not exactly nazi doctrine.
Nazi apologia. It doesn’t matter how many books he wrote or how good they were.
Here’s how I read it: His Nazi past wasn’t discovered until after receiving literary awards, which was embarrassing to the literati, so they tried to whitewash him.
Go and actually read about him! He was never proud of being an SS member, but never made a secret about it (hard to do as a POW of the Americans).
That smells like heey out of the 750.000 killing psychopaths, there were that one not absolutely bad person so let’s not judge them too hastily.
SS scum should rot in a damp prison cell for 1.000 years and then another 1.000.
Rotting away in a cell isnt harsh enough. Google what the us Soldiers found in Dachau after freeing the Camp. That shit is disgusting.
I know I know. Nothing is harsh enough.
If people only would read history books and actually think about what they read… Instead it seems, most people around here just take their education from inglorious bastards.
No.
We should judge the ones who are left with extreme prejudice and they should desperately be explaining themselves and proving that they actually sabotaged the SS and Nazi empire from within, if they are to regain any humanity.
We shouldn’t judge anyone with prejudice; that’s in the word. We must treat all people as humans; not doing that is a Nazi idea. We should treat signing up with the Nazis as evidence, and act accordingly to prevent Nazis from running around doing and saying Nazi things.
Extreme prejudice has a specific meaning which I doubt you meant. With prejudice also has specific legal meanings. Probably best to avoid this terminology.
Context for people not from Canada?
Someone in the govt got a old Ukranian dude to speak to the parlement, and they all applauded him for fighting Russia in WW2, forgetting that the people who faught Russia in WW2 were the Nazis.
They had accidentally invited a literal Nazi to speak, and applauded him for it.
Canadian here. Minor correction: he didn’t speak, but he was invited as a Ukrainian “hero” by the speaker of the house (a member of the sitting elected party). He was applauded - twice - for his “service”. Including by Ukrainian president zelensky.
The only ‘defense’ I can offer is that our prime minister had no input on the matter, and Hunka’s Nazi service came out after the fact. Canada does not support fascism or Nazism…
But it’s a bad look, no matter how you cut it…
Having no input on a Nazi guest in your house is the opposite of a good thing. Silence is complicity.
I agree that silence is complicity, but that only applies if you know there’s something worth being silent about, no?
In this case, the PM had no input because the speaker doesn’t have to ask permission to invite people from his constituency. So it falls to the speaker to validate his invitees. As such, PM has no input, but also no more fault than anyone else told to clap for the “Ukrainian hero” in this scenario… Is my understanding
so is the Canadian House and PM office that incompetent that noone knows how WWII went?
It is a disgrace for the House and the PM ehose office did not care to inform themselves, when clearly doing something with a foreign policy context.
That’s not how our parliament works. The amount of people calling for an end to the speaker’s independence is concerning.
The speaker’s job is to uphold decorum of parliament. This one spectacularly failed to do that, and resigned as he should. That doesn’t mean we should make it a partisan position.
I never talked about parisan positions or whatever. I expect both the house and the presidents office to have staff looking into some more details about things and raising the issue with the respective position, if it could be in violation of values of the respective institution or the country in general.
That does not involve any change of authority and i struggle to imagine that there weren’t staff people raising these issues beforehand. So i think it to be more plausible that their voice was ignored by the speaker and president, or the information was deliberately not passed on to them.
Either reason, lack of background check, ignorance by the political leaders or holes in the communications chain, speak of general problems in the organization that need to be adressed. These issues are specific to organizations and it doesnt matter whether it is a political party, a governmental institution, private business or NGO.
No, that’s not it, in Canadian Parliament it is the speaker of the house who has ths sole responsibility for both inviting guests to the gallery and for recognizing them in the official remarks. Other members of the house and government weren’t even given notice the guy would be there. The speakers office arranges guest vetting, but it is only a security vetting not a political one. That is the PPS and RCMP decide if the 98 year old, legal Canadian immigrant is likely to put the house and guesses physical danger, they don’t consider at all if the guest will cause a political headache.
So the fallout is that the speaker (who in fact was solely responsible for what happened) has resigned, and the PM has offerd an official apology on behalf of all Canadians. There could be more political fallout domestically, as the opposition parties are misleading Canadians and stoking ignorance of our procedures to paint the government as responsible , which I emphasize again, they were not.
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I can’t explain why governments around the world, including Canada, made a decision 60-80 years ago to allow former Nazi soldiers to relocate. I’m not an expert in that area, if you are asking a serious question may I reccomend you try books instead of random internet strangers.
“Sir we invited an Ukranian war hero, is that ok?”
What was he supposed to do, order a quick background check on that old dude before applauding?
I can’t tell if this is tongue in cheek, but the opposition is staying that this is exactly what should have happened before allowing the Nazi entry.
My read on this situation is that it all seems obvious after the fact, but that’s cuz now we know. I believe the vetting process is being reviewed because of this event. Definitely a gaffe on the part of the speaker, if this info is truly so readily accessible
How can one person be allowed to invite someone to attend an event with a visiting foreign leader and nobody cross checks? This nonsense about revising the process is a cop out. No way in hell the speaker can unilaterally do this without any background checks.
Someone made a point that made sense to me - they definitely do security cross checks, but not necessarily political checks.
My understanding is that they can invite who they want. I would guess based on the assumption that the speaker (an elected official himself) has the good sense to thoroughly vet who he’s bringing through the front door
Yes probably they should’ve thought of that beforehand. It’s literally politicians’ jobs… lazy twats
Hunka’s Nazi service came out after the fact.
He fought Russians in WW2. Wonder which army he belonged to…
Could have been Poland, Romania etc I guess. But well it wasn’t.
No, the Russians were the good guys in WWII, everyone who fought them were bad and Nazis or Nazi-adjacent. This is basic Hexbear 101.
The Russians were just spreading worker solidarity.
They were so nice they even helped with repopulating all the countries they helped liberate!
No, the Russians were the good guys in WWII,
The Russians were definitely not the good guys in WW2. They happened to end up fighting the same guys the Allies were, but that’s it.
that comment is 100% heavy sarcasm
The Russians weren’t exactly the food guys. They helped with the invasion of Poland and split it with the Nazis. After Hitler marched into Russia they turned into “the good guys” but weren’t from the beginning.
They didn’t turn into any kind of “good guy”. They took all of eastern Europe from the Nazis and kept it for themselves, ruling it just as brutally until the dissolution of the USSR. They were entirely out for themselves and didn’t do anything for justice or the good of the conquered nations.
PMO is fully responsible for this. Trudeau even apologized. I just hope inviting this literal Nazi to a diplomatic event doesn’t water down JT’s ability to call people who disagree with him Nazis. That’s his favorite thing to do, poor guy
It sounds like you hate JT, which is fine, whatever. But from a protocol point of view, it really isn’t on PMO.
The speaker’s position, by design, doesn’t report to the PMO - it’s a separate office responsible for decorum and protocol in the house (in theory it’s supposed to represent a higher ideal, and really not do much other then maintain order). As I understand it, speakers have a dedicated number of gallery seats they can fill, they just report it to some protocol/generic planning office. But they’re responsible for their invitees.
That’s why the speaker apologized for his actions, and emphasized it was his initiative. And PM apologized to the world on behalf of Canada, but not for any part he took in it. Opposition leader is making a very aggresive campaign to make Trudeau look bad, but that’s politics for you. Seems like it’s working, if I may say :P
Actually I don’t hate JT, I just hate how he has executed the duties of his office.
Also it appears that I was wrong, PMO is apparently responsible for security checks not background checks, but I can’t even find the source that led me astray in the first place.
The only ‘defense’ I can offer is that our prime minister had no input on the matter, and Hunka’s Nazi service came out after the fact.
Hunka granddaughter posted that he met Zelensky and Trudeau before.
the people who faught Russia in WW2 were the Nazis.
Not all of them though. Division of Poland and Winter War come to mind.
They said he was ukrainian who fought the Russians in ww2, that meant he fought as a nazi.
It wasn’t acidental btw. His own granddaughter posted that he met with Zelensky and Trudeau before. Also he lived in Canada for long, all of them were one short inquiry of getting to know who he is, and that’s why they have assistants etc. Sure, the western politicians have mostly shit for brains, but not one of 300 people even said “wait a minute”.
“Man who caught for a nazi unit”
Let me fix that for you:
“A Nazi who fought for Adolp Hitler”
Why are facho news like reverse clickbaity so often?
You can get stickers! https://mistersunshinebaby-5569.myshopify.com/products/i-did-nazi-that-coming-stickers
That’s not the context though and misrepresents the situation.
The Speaker of the House invited this guy because he knew of him from his riding. Without doing research or looking further into the circumstances of this individual’s service, the speaker made the decision to recognize this individual.
This has nothing to do with the PM. It’s the speaker and he resigned.
It’s pretty disgusting that people try to twist this into a partisan issue so they can dig at the PM. It’s disingenuous and kind of shitty to misrepresent this situation tbh.
I’m wondering if somebody influenced that speaker. Russian propaganda is now using this that Zelensky (who was present at the time) was clapping when that Nazi was honored.
Could just be an honest mistake, but it doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be held accountable and I’m glad he has been. If I read the headline correctly I think the PM has also made a formal apology on behalf of the Canadian government as well but someone feel free to correct me on that because I didn’t quite get to reading the article.
I think the Speaker’s riding is North Bay? The way a lot of small towns / northern cities work is someone tells you “oh I know him he’s a good guy” and you just kind of take it at face value until you find out otherwise.
Now that’s not the way international protocol should work, obviously, and of course the Russians are going to use it.
I don’t necessarily believe he was “put up to it” because the simplest explanation is just Northern Ontario word of mouth gone awry and applied to an international diplomatic event where it absolutely should have been fact checked. If I recall correctly, the Speaker said it was a last minute decision.
I have a contact in the house so I can update if I hear any whisperings. My question is: is the Chief of Protocol responsible for reviewing the Speaker’s remarks. The answer could quite conceivably be no, and if so I think that process should be reviewed.
Oh man I didn’t realize he resigned over this. I guess it’s the kind of egg on your face mistake a political career can’t really recover from though…
It’s a brutal mistake. As far as speakers go, they’re supposed to be apolitical - putting the decorum and honour of the house above all else - though they’re elected officials. They really shouldn’t be anything of interest ever, it’s literally a protocol role. So this guy… Even IF he was really good at his job as a member of parliament, and well liked among all parties, his career is over
so the conext is that they don’t do some basic research? pretty sure that’s worse than a single one time oopsie.
The PM isn’t a dictator with total control over who gets to invite people to Parliament
In fact it’s the opposite case here, the PM has neither control nor responsibility.
The speaker of the house is the defacto boss of the parliament and that’s who invited the nazi. Even if they knew the history of everyone who enters the building, the PM couldn’t have prevented the speaker from inviting this guy. Had ANYONE known this guy’s history, this wouldn’t have happened.
Can anybody explain to me what is up with Canada and a Nazi, I have been quite enjoying my rock for a couple of months.
The Canadian parlement did a standing ovation for a ukrainian solidier who was an ex nazi in WW2
Actually a current Nazi in WW2. It’s arguable if he’s an ex Nazi now
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Some guy in parliament grabbed a Ukrainian who fought the Russians in WWII to make a show for Zelensky visiting parliament, without stopping to consider who the Ukrainians that fought the Russians in WWII were.
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No
Isn’t he being extradited now? TF he was doing, coming out hiding.
Poland only send out an unofficial request because of lack of evidence iirc.
This shouldn’t be surprising given:
https://www.jta.org/1997/06/05/global/canada-knowingly-admitted-ss-members-after-world-war-ii
One of the ways of getting into Canada during the postwar period “was by showing the SS tattoo,” Canadian historian Irving Abella told “60 Minutes” interviewer Mike Wallace. “This proved that you were an anti-Communist.”
The Canadian government hasn’t really changed. Some high up government officials are the children and grandchildren of Nazi war criminals: https://www.google.com/amp/s/ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/chrystia-freelands-granddad-was-indeed-a-nazi-collaborator-so-much-for-russian-disinformation/wcm/11196169-fd23-4643-94b4-08039235c595/amp/
Liberals always side with fascists over communists/socialists when push comes to shove.
After Britain and France turned them down and did appeasement with the nazis
I’m sorry did you miss the part where that was Stalin actively bargaining with the Nazis to join the Axis in exchange for Turkey and Bulgaria?
Did you miss the part where France and England refused to join a defensive alliance with the USSR? And did appeasement with the nazis? And how denazification happened more in Eastern Europe than west Germany?
As a Canadian this is totally embarrassing but atleast we don’t consider him a national hero like some nazis in America…
Or consider Dictators as heros and gods like Russia, China, India and North Korea does.
Lmao.
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