A lot of people already know this, I’m sure, but it’s a bit counterintuitive, and here’s hoping it helps any beginners scrolling through.
This is particularly the case for pour over and drip coffee. I long assumed that an astringent flavor/feeling, sorta mouth-drying and unpleasantly mouth-watering at the same time, with a biting aftertaste, was a result of over-extraction, since it can feel sorta similar to bitterness. With that, it seemed to make sense to grind coarser, which obviously didn’t help.
In the end, going significantly finer brought a much fuller and sweeter extraction, minimizing the astringency without increasing bitterness at all.
A caveat, of course, astringency can indeed come from over-extraction, so this isn’t a guarantee. If you’re already coarse, try finer. But if you’re grinding super fine, the opposite might go for you/those beans.
TL;DR: if you are having issues with astringency, it might be intuitive to go for a lighter extraction with a coarser grind, but try going finer for richer flavor instead.
That’s interesting. I’m starting down the road of pour overs with a next level. I’ve previously been exclusively an espresso drinker.
The latest beans were feeling over extracted to me, so I’ve gone courser. The result has been pretty good, but maybe a bit light.
Would you try finer in this case, or would you stick to the pleasant, but lighter extraction?
If it’s light, but not sour, acidic, overly watery, or astringent, I might stick with what you have, and it tasting light may just be a function of coming from daily espresso (which I did, too).
That said, something I love about pour over is how easy it is to experiment. If you’re using relatively light roast beans, you’ll struggle to over-extract, so I’d definitely try going finer just to see what it does. It may end up producing less of the flavors that were giving a seemingly over-extracted taste, or at least balancing them with the natural sweetness and body of the coffee.
If it’s a light roast, I might also (separately, so you can identify the effects of each change) try increasing the water temp. I do espresso at 89-90⁰C, but I’ll crank my pour over heat to 98.9, even with a fine grind–though again, only with a light roast. It’s MUCH easier to under-extract that in is to over with a light roast, and the effects of under-extraction can taste oddly similar to over-extraction with some beans.
If they aren’t light roasted beans, grinding finer or going hotter can increase bitterness, so you’ve just got a much slimmer target for a perfect cup, and you may have to accept some bitterness or some lightness to get everything else in line with what you’re looking for. What type of beans are you using, and at what temp? (Also, assuming you have a solid grinder?)
I’m not super sure how light it is. I would have said it’s a medium roast, but the bag said it was for filter. Maybe it’s the chocolatier notes that I’m kind of disappointed with and tried to escape from with the courser grind, but who knows. The coffee’s nice, but it’s Brazilian, so I should really have seen this coming.
I’ll give a finer grind a try tomorrow. Like you say, it’s pretty easy to experiment, so why the hell not! I’ve been using water straight from the boil to brew. Seems to work well, and I don’t see any point in playing around with that. I got a next level so that I wouldn’t need to upgrade my crappy kettle, and I’m quite happy with that for now. Grinder is a niche, so I don’t think I’ll be upgrading that any time soon either. I realise it’s probably not the best for pour over, but I’m happy with it.
Either way, I’ll let you know how it goes. Thanks for the tips
Niche is definitely good enough to get a quality cup, and sounds like you’ve got a great setup for what you’re brewing. If you do ever try a cone, you can still get some great results with a $9 V60 and a classic kettie spout, too, especially if you pulse your pours.
And yeah, like you say, a Brazil is almost always going to be chocolate forward, so that makes sense. They are also often roasted medium to city/dark, so I wouldn’t typically recommend easing off the water temp, but a few degrees can make a bigger difference with darker roasts, in case it is one. But it does sound like you’ll find what you’re looking for more with a higher elevation and lighter roast. I’m personally a huge fan of Dune coffees.
Hope grinding finer is great! And if not, you’re one step further along in the process of elimination haha.
Well all I can say is thank you, kind internet stranger. I tried grinding finer, and got a really lovely sweet and balanced cup. Honestly, I wasn’t expecting anything, but it was like a completely different bean.
When I first got the bag, I tried grinding in the middle of the “pour over” range on the niche (35), which gave the results I describes initially. Ended up pulling back and settling on 40. It was pleasant there, but nothing special. This morning I tried 30, which felt extreme, but it was super nice!
I learned something new today thanks to your post!
Ah that’s so great to hear! It was an epiphany for me when I got a better cup this way, so I’m just so glad I got to share it with at least one person!
Thank you for the update, and happy pouring!
Doesn’t taste right? Grind finer.
Marriage problems? Grind finer.
… Grind finer.
A basic necessity.
my experience is that i get the best dial-in from coarse to fine. so if the coffee tastes btter/astringent i’d recommend taking big jumps coarser to get yourself back on track, then small steps finer to dial in. in my experience astringency can come from both grinding overall too fine, or just generally the presence of fines (regardless of grind size), which you get more of with harder coffee beans, etc.
I think jumping coarser and then “fine” tuning (pun half-intended) works well IF you start super fine.
If you’re starting in the middle of the spectrum from fine to coarse, and you only ever try going coarser first, you never get to try what might be the best cup, which may be on the finer side of your starting point.
Winning cups in pour over competitions are often ground shockingly fine, like only 30%-50% coarser than espresso fine. You may be using dark roast or Ethiopian beans (known to produce tons of fines and need coarser settings), but if not, I’d really suggest going finer just to see how it goes. You’ll find a lot of experts suggest the same.
