So when Israel was given it’s land via the Balfour treaty both sides were happy for a while. Yea some were pissed off but didn’t act out.
Then when Israel got settled and comfy they decided to try to grab the rest of “their” land even though this broke the treaty.
Since then the land grab has gotten blatant and they’ve created their own laws to justify it, to the point that even me saying this is seen as antisemitism even though it is totally truthful.
Well done Israel, what did you think would happen.
The ICC still want a word too!
Apartheid is still alive.
Yeah. Israel became a state because the white nations agreed while the brown nations didn’t.
So we all know who got their way.
The only people who should be surprised are those who thoughts this conflict would end there.
Victim blaming…
The victims are the Palestinians.
I believe the Israeli civilians being killed and held hostage would also qualify as victims here.
Yeah, we should separate the citizens from the government. Unless there really is overwhelming support from the citizens for the actions of the government. I don’t know about that situation over there.
That way, you can blame the Israeli government for the deaths of the citizen, singular?
Yeah to an extent but the population support and enable their apartheid state, land grabbing and murderous policies. These are the consequences. I don’t want to see anyone dead but this isn’t a surprise and I stand with Palestine.
Exactly. The victims are the Palestinian people and Israeli people who can’t stop those in charge from doing what they are doing. The vast majortiy of victims that disproportionately suffer more are Palestinians, a clear consequence of continued Israeli aggression and occupation, police-protected settler violence, and relentless land-grabbig. Israel put itself, it’s citizens, and all the Palestinians under the bus by committing apartheid.
Oh yea right sorry for giving you the obvious blatant truth!
This is a tragedy, but similar to the invasion of Ukraine with Isreal being Russia.
Wow, no one is going to mention what Israel is doing to these people? I don’t agree with terrorists, but the replies should be more nuanced than ‘bad Palestines’.
In my eyes, as an outsider following the news, Israel has pushed Palestinians to the brink by killing Palestine civilians, seizing more of their land AGAIN and having a dictator for a president that just changed the constitution…
If you take people’s land, your military kills children, films and laughs about it, push them into poverty, and then come for their homes… Sometimes this is the only way to say ‘enough’.
I think the tragedy is that this goes both ways: if a group of people that just escaped a genocide, gets attacked by all its neighboring countries as soon as they have a state of their own, are explicitly threatened with extinction and are attacked over and over again by military actions and terrorist attacks… sometimes people will try to assert absolute dominance in order to try to ensure their own physical safety above everything else.
Note: I am very much not justifying any of the above. I just think that it’s not very surprising that people act this way, and that Hamas & Co of course know this - just as the Israeli government & Co know how people react to their actions. In my opinion neither the Israeli government (and orthodox settlers etc.) nor the Hamas (and similar groups) are honestly trying to unfuck the situation.
Rational take.
I wish more people could look at this like you. The violence currently ongoing in Israel is unconscionable – no treatment can justify attacking civilians. It’s just as unconscionable as Israel bombing civilians in Palestine.
Neither action is productive even in a war context. Killing civilians doesn’t get you closer to your goal. It just makes your enemy even angrier and gives them righteous justification for their actions. But even that doesn’t justify them killing your civilians.
Hamas and Israel’s conservative government are content to keep killing innocent people – to what end? How do they not see that it’s completely unproductive to their own goals?
Come live in israel and see how is it for us. And I’m saying this as a left wing pro human rights anti settlement opposer of the current fascist government
Come live in Gaza?
Exactly lmao
I’m glad you oppose you fascist government. Sadly, like it is here in America, a lot of the citizens support the fascism. If you see interviews with Israelis, they often talk like Palestinians aren’t even human. It’s so saddening.
I think he’s saying that it’s like Israel is the invader, similar to Russia.
There appears to be some confusion. Before anyone decides to post a viewpoint based upon a timeslot of their choosing, please search for yourselves when Israel was created and its boundaries. Then track the boundaries every 10 years and see where they are today. Then ask yourselves what you would do if you were pressed so far.
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Hamas’s missiles directed towards Israeli civilians and you choose to compare Israel to Russia. Your propoganda is showing…
Do you consider Hamas the aggressor in the overall context of the Israel- Palestinian conflict?
Do you think only one side can be responsible in a conflict?
Sometimes yes. I know very little about the Israelo-palestinian confilct (only what I read from news outlet) so I can’t say anything for sure here.
But more generally, in history, there have been plenty of conflicts that were one side’s responsability: Ukraine’s invasion, WW2, colonie’s independance “wars”… IMO, when you defend yourself from an agression, you are not responsible for the conflict.
In this case, I tend to agree with other commentors - Israel seems to have been increasingly oppressive and brutal at least in the past 2 decades, and you can only push people so far before they react.
How they react matters though. If Palestinians brutally murdered Israeli children, I think we’d all agree there’s absolutely no justification for that, no matter what rings wrongs Israel has committed.
Palestine has every right to fight back against Israel, but not the civilians. When a country kills your civilians, you solve absolutely nothing by retaliation killing their civilians. Your enemy is their military and government.
I firmly believe it is impossible to push someone to a point where their attacking innocent people can be justified.
Sometimes yes.
No one is denying that.
Israel has left Gaza in 2005 and only received missiles and terrorist attacks in return. Although no side is mother Teresa in this conflict, one is is definitely less mother Teresa than the other.
Israel continues to expand their occupation of Palestinian land, though. Do you think Palestinians in Gaza have no stake in the well-being of other Palestinians in East Jerusalem and the West Bank?
They’re only bringing about their own ruin. Fuck, if they actually wanted to do something, then be human fucking beings and adults and come to solve agreement/ compromise. Israel isn’t going anywhere. They only stand to lose more and more by not coming to the table but instead being violent terrorists. They can keep killing for hundreds of years. They’ll end up with even less and accomplish nothing.
Colonizers are always responsible for any violence that follows.
I’m down with blaming the British
Well, that goes without saying.
So if Native Americans fired rockets on e.g. Corpus Christi, Texas, they would have no responsibility at all for this action?
I am not denying the responsibility of “the colonizers”, I think other people can also have some responsibility.
They’d be justified.
The point is to not condemn the oppressed without regard for their oppression.
So just to be clear, if a Native American went up to you, told you that he was going to shoot you because your ancestors stole his land, and then murdered you, you have no qualms about this?
Where in this thread did someone “condemn the oppressed without regard for their oppression”?
They’re not being oppressed if they choose to live the why they do. At some point the drug addict needs to come to terms with the fact they are the ones causing their self harm. They could compromise and stop their killing/ bloodshed to build a peace but they don’t. Continuously attacking is one of the most dumbass moves they keep making. I’m out of sympathy and patience for these idiots. Keep crying but do nothing. Other parts of the Arab world have moved on and made peace with Israel. The Palestinians only have excuses and children to sacrifice at this point.
He said aggressor.
And idoubledo did not say aggressor. So what do we gain by fixating on this word?
Not being the aggressor does not give you a licence to murder civilians.
Is it amoral? Yes, for sure 100%. But as a global community, we barely punish those who engage in this kind of tactic, and when we do, it’s for some kind of political theater. More Palestinian civilians will die in this conflict by a factor, if you’re going to criticize Hamas for this, I’d like to see the same standard applied to IDF.
I’m not saying either side is innocent, but you cannot compare this to the invasion of Ukraine since Ukraine does not deliberately target Russian civilians.
Wow. I apologize for the confusion. I absolutely do not believe these two situations are comparable. My bad.
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Even if Hamas is wrong (and they are wrong to attack civilians), the comparison between Russia and Israel in terms of being an occupying power is still a totally valid comparison. I think this is what your point is missing.
Palestinians are defending their home. Good luck to them.
Never seen rape and beheading of children to be part of “defense” plan of any country.
Israel has been trying to inflict genocide on the Palestinian people.
You do realize there’s no “trying” part if they wanted to? Just look at previous conflicts between these two sides and see how disproportionate the power is.
Israel has killed and displaced millions of Palestinians.
well, russia. that’s the kind of company these brain dead commenters like to keep
I suppose your have a point.
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The only people who hate Israel are Marxists, islamists, or neo nazis. The three most vile groups in the world.
Even in such a blatant case where a globally recognized terrorist group like Hamas, who isn’t even supported by their own people, literally declares a “holy” war where they’re targeting and killing civilians… It is still being supported and praised by these idiots solely because their antisemitic ideologies have blinded them to reason. They see Israel and they automatically seethe and wish death and destruction upon them regardless of context. There are literally videos of Hamas terrorists massacring civilians (including women and children), taking their bodies on trucks and parading around the streets celebrating their murder. How can anybody be so brain damaged they straight up support this type of horrific behavior. There’s plenty to criticize Israel for, but being a terrorist sympathizer makes you scum.
Israel is a fascist state.
Here’s the official charter of Hamas:
https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp
I went ahead and handpicked a few articles to highlight, though I highly recommend reading all of them to truly grasp how fucked they are:
Article Seven:
Moreover, if the links have been distant from each other and if obstacles, placed by those who are the lackeys of Zionism in the way of the fighters obstructed the continuation of the struggle, the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah’s promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:
“The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews.” (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).
Article Eight:
Allah is its target, the Prophet is its model, the Koran its constitution: Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes.
Article Eleven:
The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any king or president, nor all the kings and presidents, neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that. Palestine is an Islamic Waqf land consecrated for Moslem generations until Judgement Day. This being so, who could claim to have the right to represent Moslem generations till Judgement Day?
This is the law governing the land of Palestine in the Islamic Sharia (law) and the same goes for any land the Moslems have conquered by force, because during the times of (Islamic) conquests, the Moslems consecrated these lands to Moslem generations till the Day of Judgement.
Article Twelve:
Nationalism, from the point of view of the Islamic Resistance Movement, is part of the religious creed. Nothing in nationalism is more significant or deeper than in the case when an enemy should tread Moslem land. Resisting and quelling the enemy become the individual duty of every Moslem, male or female. A woman can go out to fight the enemy without her husband’s permission, and so does the slave: without his master’s permission.
Article Fifteen:
The day that enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In face of the Jews’ usurpation of Palestine, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised. To do this requires the diffusion of Islamic consciousness among the masses, both on the regional, Arab and Islamic levels. It is necessary to instill the spirit of Jihad in the heart of the nation so that they would confront the enemies and join the ranks of the fighters.
It is necessary that scientists, educators and teachers, information and media people, as well as the educated masses, especially the youth and sheikhs of the Islamic movements, should take part in the operation of awakening (the masses). It is important that basic changes be made in the school curriculum, to cleanse it of the traces of ideological invasion that affected it as a result of the orientalists and missionaries who infiltrated the region following the defeat of the Crusaders at the hands of Salah el-Din (Saladin). The Crusaders realised that it was impossible to defeat the Moslems without first having ideological invasion pave the way by upsetting their thoughts, disfiguring their heritage and violating their ideals. Only then could they invade with soldiers. This, in its turn, paved the way for the imperialistic invasion that made Allenby declare on entering Jerusalem: “Only now have the Crusades ended.” General Guru stood at Salah el-Din’s grave and said: “We have returned, O Salah el-Din.” Imperialism has helped towards the strengthening of ideological invasion, deepening, and still does, its roots. All this has paved the way towards the loss of Palestine.
It is necessary to instill in the minds of the Moslem generations that the Palestinian problem is a religious problem, and should be dealt with on this basis. Palestine contains Islamic holy sites. In it there is al- Aqsa Mosque which is bound to the great Mosque in Mecca in an inseparable bond as long as heaven and earth speak of Isra` (Mohammed’s midnight journey to the seven heavens) and Mi’raj (Mohammed’s ascension to the seven heavens from Jerusalem).
Article Twenty-Seven:
Secularism completely contradicts religious ideology. Attitudes, conduct and decisions stem from ideologies.
That is why, with all our appreciation for The Palestinian Liberation Organization - and what it can develop into - and without belittling its role in the Arab-Israeli conflict, we are unable to exchange the present or future Islamic Palestine with the secular idea. The Islamic nature of Palestine is part of our religion and whoever takes his religion lightly is a loser.
"Who will be adverse to the religion of Abraham, but he whose mind is infatuated? (The Cow - verse 130). The day The Palestinian Liberation Organization adopts Islam as its way of life, we will become its soldiers, and fuel for its fire that will burn the enemies.
Article Thrity-Two:
The Islamic Resistance Movement consider itself to be the spearhead of the circle of struggle with world Zionism and a step on the road. The Movement adds its efforts to the efforts of all those who are active in the Palestinian arena. Arab and Islamic Peoples should augment by further steps on their part; Islamic groupings all over the Arab world should also do the same, since all of these are the best-equipped for the future role in the fight with the warmongering Jews.
These are the people who you are defending. These are the people who have currently declared war, invaded Israel, slaughtered civilians, and are parading around with the corpses of the women and children that killed on the streets. They’re a terrorist group no different from ISIS or Al Qaeda. They don’t peace or coexistence, they want war and genocide. Maybe it’s time for you to reconsider why you support a terrorist group of this calibar
Still not as fucked up the Tel Aviv theocracy, who is doing genocide on the Palestinians.
Anyone supporting Israel is supporting genocide’
You’re a willfully ignorant ideological drone. Talking to you is a waste of time
You’re just a genocide-supporting racist.
I’m not the one supporting Hamas, dumbass
Worse, you’re supporting the genocidal theocracy in Tel Aviv.
Good luck to the Palestinian freedom fighters! Apartheid must end!
You are cheering people that have been gunning down civilians at a bus stops. Try to take a moment to really reflect on that some time.
No, this doesn’t mean I support Israel, before you ask.
I hate that people make this into a binary. I don’t support either side here, I just hate the people killing civilians. And between this Hamas attack and Israel’s airstrikes on civilian areas, there is no moral side to take. Bloody butchers lead both of them.
We need a Palestinian group that decries Hamas and stands against any violence to Israeli civilians, and we need an Israeli group that decries their conservative government and stands against any violence to Palestinian civilians. Until either side pledges to protect both groups of civilians, there will be no progress. Only blood.
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War is hell, but few wars have ever been more justified than this one.
Let those with a death wish meet their just end! They’re not freedom fighters. They’re simple terrorists taking hostages, gunning people in the street, etc. They have no end game but death and destruction. They’ll accomplish nothing but murder and subsequent hardship for their people. They could be thriving but they’d rather kill people indiscriminately. They have no code of conduct nor rules of engagement. If they saw a Jewish toddler or infant, they wouldn’t hesitate to kill it. There is no reason to champion these losers.
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No, fuck Hamas. Love for Palestine.
Innocent civilians are dying on both sides, but long-term it’s always the innocent Palestinian people who suffer most when the nationalists on either side start shooting. The skew in the death toll over the long course of the Israel-Palestine conflict is incredibly one-sided.
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Hamas won a plurality (44%) - not a majority - of the votes in the last elections in 2006. They subsequently launched a coup, sought to purge their political opponents and have ruled the Gaza Strip as a de facto dictatorship ever since. The people of Gaza have spent the last 17 years suffering from the combination of a Hamas dictatorship and a full land, sea and air blockade by the Israeli military.
So to answer your question: Hamas gunmen put Hamas in power.
Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem remain occupied territories under international law since the 1967 Israeli conquests.
44% is more than hitler had…
What a weird attempt at logic.
Strange, but true: Israel created and empowered Hamas.
Oh you come with logic?!? How dare you!
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Some people are just hardline pro-Israel no matter what.
You can spot them because they make comments like this. Not an ounce of nuance in their brain because that goes against the tribe.
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Quiet day with people trying to mind their business equals terrorists🤦♂️🙄yeah ok. Do you people even read the shit you write or just going off some nonsense script?
White people killing brown: 👍
Brown people killing white: 👎
Who killed more innocent people: Israel or Palestine?
Israel is an apartheid state.
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Would you hold Israel to the same standard? They invaded the Palestinian territories in 1967, have held them under military occupation for over half a century since and in that time have killed rather a lot more Palestinian civilians than vice versa.
But sensible people do not use that as a pretext to say a blanket ‘fuck Israel’, because it is unhelpful, unconstructive and racist to blame an entire people for war crimes committed by members of their military. But I’m curious if you apply your logic on Palestine to the other side too?
Who has ruled over the other with military occupation, routinely unhoused, tortured, killed and terrorized the other for 70+ years?
Who decided they wanted the land and proceeded to ethnically cleanse the towns to make room for their own people?
Don’t turn a blind eye.
Ok and why did Israel have to occupy land? Who declared a war?
Israel began its occupation in 1947 when the soon-to-be state began ethnically cleansing the lands - removing the Indigenous locals out of their homes and villages. Yes - this sparked the 1948 war, which resulted in even more land being occupied. This issue did not begin with the 1948 war.
You will not get a response. Captain patriot probably just smashed his keyboard into dust.
That’s okay, I’m not trying to get a response! Just trying to make sure people think about this with less bias.
*or phone!
Can’t wait to see your posts about Israel’s retaliation and all the innocents they kill.
You… will post about them, right?
Yes.
