Feel free to report antisemitic comments, but antizionism isn’t antisemitism and acting like it is is antisemitic and will net you a ban starting once this comment is posted.
Reporting borderline stuff will not get you banned but as someone who had family at auschwitz I’m tired of blatant antisemitism in defense of a settler colonialist apartheid regime.
Hall of shame:
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Mmm, there’s nuance there. It can be exploited to push antisemitism, but it isn’t inherently antisemitic.
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As a Jew, I say this kindly as I possibly can but it very much is quite strong in the real world. I’ve experienced antisemitism numerous times over with people using antizionism as an excuse. Antisemitism is really bad and has risen in the past few years online and offline, and people with bad intentions absolutely exploit Israeli war crimes to justify their antisemitism. And it creates a shitty feedback loop as hardcore Zionists point to instances of antisemitism that’s in done under the guise of antizionism as “hey look see they hate us thats why we need zionism!”
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Any group. Antisemitism is unfortunately a unique form of racism that can be perpetuated by anyone. It’s complicated, and it’s complexity makes it all the more frustrating. It’s not just a Nazi thing, it’s an anyone thing. Anyone can perpetuate antisemitism, not just Nazis. That’s why it’s such a prevalent form of bigotry across the world. It’s also prevalent not just in Europe but there is antisemitism that has been culturally common in the Middle East as well as it is in the West, most of it which predates Israels founding as a whole too. That doesn’t justify Israels bullshit and their fascist government. Jew’s are hated by nearly everyone, everywhere.
Because West media purposely masking Israel with the cloak of cultural protection given to Jews is often what I discuss with my friend and is fucking disgusting and a disservice to all of the innocent Jews.
This specifically is something to be very careful when stating, as it veers dangerously close into territory of “jews control the media” which is an antisemitic conspiracy theory. I know what you are trying to say and our intentions seem to be in good faith here, but I ask you to analyze that as it is one of those things that people may take in very bad faith.
https://www.ushmm.org/antisemitism/what-is-antisemitism/explained <- this is a good primer for it. It’s extremely complicated and there’s a reason why even in the US many well intentioned people don’t understand it either. It also doesn’t help that Israel uses legit examples of antisemitism to try and shield their war crimes from criticism.
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Also any expression of support for the Israel led genocide of Palestinians or any sort bigotry will not be tolerated as per Rule 3.
There’s a difference between antizionism and antisemitism. Just as there’s a difference between Israel and Jews.
Blame Israel, it’s anti Israel. Blame the Jews, it’s antisemitism.
Thank you.
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Antisemitism explicitly refers to hatred of Jews, it’s a weird linguistics thing but its why when referring to antisemitism there isnt a dash (anti-semitism) as that would specifically refer to all semites as a whole (which palestinians are). It has roots to the specific phrase that was used in German to refer to hatred of Jews.
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Don’t attempt to explain my own peoples hatred to me. I know more than you as I’ve lived this, as a Jew who is explicitly not a Zionist and has faced antisemitism online and offline. Stop.
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“We know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinians … Choose peace rather than confrontation. Except in cases where we cannot get, where we cannot proceed, or we cannot move forward. Then if the only alternative is violence, we will use violence.”
- Nelson Mandela
I guess the time has come where Palestinians cannot move forward, and have to use violence.
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“World opinion”
I think you mean ‘the opinion of the US and it’s allies.’ The world is much bigger than that, and opinions about Israel in the rest of the world are not great.
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Israel has labeled BDS, the actual peaceful option, terrorism.
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“It is of no use for Israel to talk of peace, if they still hold onto the Arab territories of which they conquered.”
Want to guess who said this one?
The Palestinians have been pushed to breaking point by decades of apartheid. Obviously terrorist acts and killing civilans by any side is unjustifiable, but general Palestinian resistance against Israeli military targets and soldiers is self defence at this point. And let’s be very clear, you can’t steal Palestinian people’s homes, kick Palestinians out of their land, and joyfully watch Palestinians being bombed in an open air concentration camp , which Israeli settlers have been doing to Palestinians, and not expect a response in turn. You reap what you sow.
Palestinians: got their land stolen by Israel
Israel: Surprised stealing people’s land makes them want to shoot you
SurprisedPikachu.png
Yes, the land is stolen. Yes, resistance is legitimate. No, murder of civilians is not acceptable, no matter which side does it.
Would you really hold the same view if native Americans massacred American civilians in the US today?
Personally my stance isn’t so much that I think its “acceptable” as I think its “an unfortunate reality”. Revolutions are not clean, ever. Individuals involved in it do bad things. Holding the oppressed to the standards of having a completly clean revolution (impossible) is just counterproductive. I support the revolutionaries even if not every action they take is morally right. I dont withdraw my support for something that is good on the whole because of individual acts that are not good.
Its also worth noting that Israel chose to put civilians on the front lines of a settler project, and that this is kind of the obvious consequence of that. It can easily be argued, I think correctly, that they wanted this so they could look like the victims. Despite them being the oppressors.
if u.s. “civilians” were intentionally aiding in the genocide their government is carrying out? yes, killing them would be 100% justified, no matter who did it or when.
Settlers are not civilians. They are non combat support for the illegal occupation.
Yeah you’re right your right I’m just being a shitter sorry
However, your last question is a little interesting. I would support it If native Americans were slaughtering Americans while they were still stealing their land. Israel is contemporary colonialism, and because they can get away with it and still be the victims, that is white supremacy
Yeah totally, words are a war crime. Get a grip you’re hysterical.
Right?!? Literally the most reactionary take possible, acting like Isreal hasn’t done anything wrong to the Palestinians, or had gaza under crippling sanctions for decades…
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It’s moderated, your shit was removed lmao.
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there’s a modlog at the bottom of every page if you want even more evidence of how hilariously wrong you are
that’s where I had to go to see you calling internet comments “war crimes” since your post had been removed
also - lol, lmao
Lol it was removed by a hexbear mod on the hexbear instance. Only you and your fragile commie buddies were spared from the horrors of his dumb take
Cope
Do you not understand how federation works?
Also, too bad this place isn’t moderated, getting hard to choose between it and Reddit
Then go back to reddit then and spare us your concern troll moaning in support of a genocidal ethnostate. Any violence done by Palestinians is self defense at this point.
Also, this place is heavily moderated, it’s just not an echo chamber where you’re going to see nothing but opinions identical to your own (dogshit) worldview. Yes, your first comment was removed, as well it should have been.
Remember when Israel just mowed down peaceful protestors after Trump moved the American embassy to Jerusalem? That embassy hasn’t been moved back under a Democratic president, either.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018–2019_Gaza_border_protests
This is but one example, under a climate of constant incursion into Gaza and stealing ever more land. That’s what Israeli settlements are, after all. They claim land from Palestinians, force them out of their homes, then move in Israeli families.
Anything Hamas does is self-defense.
Down with the settler government
We need international peacekeeping in the region to enforce a new set of accords
The international community has shown to be Pro-Israeli and thus anti-Palestinian. The Palestinian Plan for Partition was a plan to peacefully split up British Palestine into a separate Jewish and Arab state, as well as Jerusalem becoming a free city. The plan gave 62% of the land to the Jewish community despite the Arabic population having twice the population. Obviously the Arab population rejected this plan on the basis that it violated the right to natuonal self-determination, and thus this perpetual conflict was born.
Especially with the US being so obviously Pro-Israel and having virtually all power on the decision-making of the West, why would you think the Arab population would ever get fair treatment under an international “peacekeeping” mission?The “international community” huh?
More like “the US and it’s friends”
Well, yeah, the US and its allies are the controlling party in the international community.
@bdonvr @zephyreks Yes please, but not like this!
Very disappointed in the Lemmy community for down voting this.
Go to hell you bloodthirsty pig. Slaughtering civilians in the streets and inside air raid sirens is not resistance, it’s inhuman.
When you limit yourself to specific incidents, it’s easy to judge right and wrong. Over the course of years, though, neither side can claim the moral high ground.
Overall, this is one of the most pointless, wasteful, and inhumane conflicts in human history.
Personally, when dealing with two groups who claim the same land, I side with the one that’s been there the longest, not the one that shouldered it’s way in, demanded a room, and started shooting anyone who told them to leave.
But the US kind of has a penchant for that.
Killing - no matter the victim is inhuman.
Believing one side has the right to kill while the other must take it, is pretty gross.
“Slaughtering civilians in the streets” is precisely what the IDF does on the regular, just so you know. It’s hard to imagine any group of people would live under military occupation for 70+ years after being forced to leave their homes for refugee camps without the desire to fight for their freedom.
There is almost nothing in this world that is more human than killing other humans. History is full of it. Religious texts are full of it. It’s what humans are best at. Is it awful? Sure, but it’s an act as human as it gets.
Point made. Sadly it’s true. Especially today as we spend trillions on technology designed to kill.
No it’s not. You’re just shilling out propaganda on the day of a massacre.
Sorry, but I have been an advocate for Palestinian rights for years. I’m not just shilling out propaganda on the day of a massacre. As I type this, the confirmed death tolls have Israelis near 100 while Palestinian deaths are near double that. So if you want to start talking about massacres, just so far today Israel has caused more death, let alone the days, weeks, months, years and decades prior to today.
Isn’t that what the IDF does?
Imagine being brutalised for so long you resort to this
Agreed. Which is why the IDF also needs to be eliminated.
Both sides are and have been commiting atroscious acts against civilians and neither side can be excused for their inhuman actions.
But in that consideration the power imbalance cannot be ignored. The IDF is a highly modern, most likely even nuclearly armed army, wheras the people inside Gaza are denied access to such simple things as building materials by the Israeli Apartheid.
Absolutely agree with you here
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let people live and come to some terms/ reality.
So I take you support a ceasefire and negotiations to end the Russia - Ukraine war?
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If you want to discuss how the Palestinians have accomplished nothing but their own suffering, while having nothing to show for it, then I’m all ears
If you want to defend acts of Israeli apartheid towards Palestinians, I’m not going to listen. I’m South African, I oppose apartheid everywhere. As Nelson Mandela said, our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinian people.
I will not defend the killing of civilians by any side. That is morally unjustifiable. I will be clear however, that violence begets violence, and Israel has been indiscriminately bombing civilians (a terrorist tactic), and stealing land and homes for decades. The way to end this is to stop the violence, and come to the negotiation table. A two state solution of some sort is a compromise that is desperately needed to ease tensions.
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You’ve been defending terrorists the whole time. Israel has never taken hostages like the Palestinians have. There’s no end goal in these attacks. Whatever problems the Palestinians have will not be fixed by what they’re doing.
I can change the place names in your quote a bit and you sound exactly like the typical boilerplate response of a 1970s-80s South African pro-Apartheid liberal whining about how “uMkontho we Sizwe is too violent”. Just flatly admit that you support the Apartheid rule and the list of crimes perpetrated by the Israeli government.
No, they just double tap buildings to kill rescuers. Very noble.
. If you want to discuss how the
PalestiniansBanderites have accomplished nothing but their own suffering, while having nothing to show for it, then I’m all ears.Ftfy
hey you should die. screaming, preferably.
Agreed, we need for the Europeans and occupiers to go home.
u mad, settler?
Allow me to join you
tell that to the fascist government exterminating palestinians on their own land
and come to some terms/ reality.
Imagine telling this to someone when France was under occupation by Germany
What a moving, salient political take. Good thing “Just stop it and leave us alone😡🤬” is a belief that always survives against armed militant resistance
With the establishment of a relationship of oppression, violence has already begun. Never in history has violence been initiated by the oppressed. How could they be the initiators, if they themselves are the result of violence? How could they be the sponsors of something objective whose objective inauguration called forth their existence as oppressed? There would be no oppressed had there been no prior of violence to establish their subjugation.
And it is clear that in the colonial countries the peasants alone are revolutionary, for they have nothing to lose and everything to gain. The starving peasant, outside the class system is the first among the exploited to discover that only violence pays. For him there is no compromise, no possible coming to terms; colonization and decolonization a simply a question of relative strength.
Get this into your head: if violence were only a thing of the future, if exploitation and oppression never existed on earth, perhaps displays of nonviolence might relieve the conflict. But if the entire regime, even your nonviolent thoughts, is governed by a thousand-year old oppression, your passiveness serves no other purpose but to put you on the side of the oppressors.
The illegal settlements that are condemmed by the UN? Yeah sound about right to let murderous religious fundamentalist occupiers just occupy. You say the same to the Ukrainian people fighting the Russian invasion? They should just come to terms with Crimea being occupied?
i want to wake up to a world without Israel
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You and Hams have something in common.
so weird how the victims of a genocide would prefer the apartheid state to not exist
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Palestine is not enacting a genocide. That assertion is frankly disgusting.
Have libs really begun to abuse the word “genocide” so badly that an act of war by itself against an oppressive state is now considered genocidal?
They will if Hamas gets their way.
When the Apartheid rule in South Africa ended, a “Truth and Reconciliation Commission” was set up to prevent just this kind of retaliation from materializing. Even the Big Black Book of why Israel is peepeepoopoo according to South Africa that I have, even suggests also setting up a Truth and Reconciliation Commission for this same reason for when Palestine is liberated.
However, you are more than likely engaging in a bad-faith argument, so…
you’re a fucking clown
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okay well thanks for your prognostication but israel is doing a genocide now
what may or may not happen in the future according to the world’s least informed dipshit is irrelevant
I know it’s unlikely to happen, but you liberals should really start asking yourselves why these sort of hypothetical scenarios are required to justify your worldview.
they’re in constant state of terror to the tune of “they’ll do to us what we did to them!”
see also US slaveowners with their constant fantasizing about slave revolts, and their increased brutality to the enslaved to prevent it.
see also ancient spartans living in constant terror of a slave uprising and brutalizing their enslaved populations.
see also current US whites malding about the non-white population rising…
always the same shit with these fucks.
Have you read Hamas mission statement - it literally is to commit genocide
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Associated Press: Hamas militant group has started a war that ‘Israel will win,’ defense minister says
New York Times: Gaza and Israel on War Footing After Militants Launch Surprise Assaults
Arab News: Hamas launches surprise attack as gunmen enter Israel
Israel Hayom: Hamas claims dozens of Israelis captured in surprise offensive; 4 Israelis killed by rocket fire
RT: Hamas launches major attack on Israel
SCMP: Rocket barrages from Gaza strike Israel amid Hamas infiltrations
Xinhua: Barrages of rockets fired from Gaza into Israeli cities
The Guardian: Israel declares state of war after Hamas fires thousands of rockets and ‘militants cross border’
BBC: Palestinian gunmen infiltrate Israel after rocket barrage from Gaza
100% completely uncritical support to the liberatory resistance fighters of Palestine in their pursuit of decolonisation of their lands and right to self defence against Israel’s aggression, occupation and destructive regime.
Uncritical support of murder of children, of rape, of massacring defenseless civillians, and you think you are somehow better than the imperialists? Disgusting.
Israel started the brutality, Palestine has to do whatever it takes. The Israeli government is to blame for Israeli deaths
“After Hamas Offensive” fucking Zionist rag, even after Israel literally blew up their fucking offices in Palestine
Al Jazeera is run by a bunch Brits that have full editorial control unless it conflicts with Qatar’s foreign interests. It’s a giant dogsh*t media outlet pretending to be progressive. It’s like The Guardian of the middle east, not worth wiping your butt with.
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The lack of serious responses shows how ignorant people here are to this issue (even though many speak about it confidently).
The way I see it, Hamas is trying to elicit a disproportionate response from Israel in order to jeopardize recent normalization efforts.
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It’s like a prison riot. You have to fight back knowing that you will be crushed again, but if you don’t Israel will just continue the slow slaughter of Palestinians.
If you can try to get some breathing room and make it painful to the other side you can hope Israel will someday stop.
Has there every been a prison that had to shut down and release all the prisoners due to continious riots? It just doesn’t seem like a strategy that can actually work.
The difference is that the comparison shouldn’t happen because Gaza is not actually a prison so the people in it aren’t prisoners they are civilians with militants mixed in because there is no way out.
If Israel didn’t oppress and let the people live their lives, then perhaps they wouldn’t lash out with these rocket attacks.
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Nah, that’s Israel, they’re the apartheid state, remember?
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It’s not a buzzword, it is apartheid. South Africans who have fought against apartheid and suffered under it agree, that Israel is an apartheid state. I know because I have I have talked to them. If you can’t agree with that, there is no use having a conversation.
Clearly you don’t understand what the term “apartheid” means, nor why Israel has been called an “apartheid” state for decades.
Also the irony of you telling two South Africans “that they have no clue what they’re talking about”.
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I’m no South African, but you’re a useful idiot for the ruling class if you are so ready to dismiss the voices of minoritized groups, i.e. the ones who don’t have the media reach to tell you what to think.
no u
Damn, can’t believe we managed to get Terre’Blanche himself in this thread.
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drown in your own piss, fascist
Least Fascist Zionist
look out, here comes my piss jar from the 20th floor
considering this is what lemm.ee is allowing, i can only imagine what the more reddit-infested lemmy.world looks like
I’ve created a community for them here on hexbear as well
This is why we require mod approval for new comms.
It looks like a tiny sub with three people at the most commenting, and that’s just me being generous and not assuming they’re all alts.
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13 hours later, it seems it’s gone. At least I cannot access it.
Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn’t work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: [email protected]
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Can I introduce you to all of human history?
Yeah but the rest of human history didn’t involve the threat of nuclear annihilation always looming on the horizon.
And yet, if Palestine had nukes, Israel would not encroach on its borders.
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I am a realist. What do you think is going to happen to Palestine in the near future if both or any one of them escalates?
The top comment in this thread is
i want to wake up to a world without Israel
This goading and dangerous rhetoric is spewed by the uniparty in reverse, i.e against Palestine right now.
Here is a measured response btw
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Nah, Russia is just another symptom of the broad-based rise in instability. Russia is making the most of it - and they are not alone. A few regimes are getting their shit sorted so that they can hunker down for the next few decades. Or not. Chaos is a ladder, after all.
Israeli air raids have hit the Gaza Strip after Hamas announced the start of Operation Al-Aqsa Flood against Israel.
The group running the besieged enclave says it has fired thousands of rockets towards Israel. Several casualties have been reported.
It’s almost like people don’t like it when a bunch of outsiders move into their land & kick them off.
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