• SeaJ@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    31
    arrow-down
    6
    ·
    1 year ago

    Isn’t it nice that China is working with them on their Belt and Road initiative?

          • DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            Not quite.

            You know Crown Prince MBS? Hacks up journalists MBS?

            https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/saudi-clerics-crown-prince-mohammed/2021/08/02/9ae796a0-e3ed-11eb-88c5-4fd6382c47cb_story.html

            The actual reason he hasn’t faced consequences for it is that he’s largely doing what the West wants, the secularization of SA. Calling it a theocracy just isn’t quite right anymore, even if Islam as a whole tends to dispute the very idea of the separation of church and state.

            I think that’s one of the things Christians, or former Christians, don’t want to admit in this little religious rivalry, that Muslims are every bit as varied in their take on fundamentalism as Christians.

            • TWeaK@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              Lol the Saudis used Israeli spy tech to spy on the family of the journalist they murdered, Jamal Khashoggi. They may well have used it on him as well, however his devices were never recovered so that was never proven. The sale of the tech was approved by the Israeli government, and the company that sold it claims they have full oversight over who their customers target.

              That’s completely beside the point you were making, but I really felt the need to mention it nonetheless. War is a tangled web, the only consistent thread is money.

          • TWeaK@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            The faiths are a little different, but Wahhabism isn’t far removed from Sunni Islam. In any case, since 7 October the Saudis have been talking with Iran about working with them, instead of Israel.

            • CashewNut 🏴󠁢󠁥󠁧󠁿@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              Iran is Shia. They have a very violent history of conflict across the Middle East. Most recently across Iraq but Sunni vs Shia has been a common conflict duo since Islam split.

              • TWeaK@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                Fair play, my mistake. Saudi Arabia is still starting to cosy up to Iran now, though.

        • NewDark@lemmings.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          10
          arrow-down
          5
          ·
          1 year ago

          Maybe. But I’m referring to the United States.

          Pot calling the kettle black and all that.

            • prole
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              4
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              Did you even read the first two sentences of the wiki you linked?

              […] despite the differences between the two countries—an Islamic absolute monarchy, and a secular constitutional republic—the two countries have been allies ever since.

              • TWeaK@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                4
                ·
                1 year ago

                And then most of the rest of the article lists all the ways in which they’re not really allies. It’s not your typical allied relationship, they’re pretty much allies in name only these days and very begrudgingly.

    • TWeaK@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      arrow-down
      8
      ·
      1 year ago

      Yes it is? An infrastructure project like that will help modernise the region.

      • Scrof@sopuli.xyz
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        18
        arrow-down
        6
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        It’s not an infrastructure project, it’s a debt trap and power projection tool through bribery of corrupt leaders willing to sell out their countries.

        • Rikudou_Sage@lemmings.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          1 year ago

          I’ve apparently been living under a rock and have no idea what this initiative is about, care to share some quick summary?

          • TWeaK@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            6
            ·
            1 year ago

            Basically China is building roads and rail across from China, through India and into the Middle East. Afghanistan also includes something about getting copper from there to send back to China, I imagine other countries will have resources China is after as well.

        • TWeaK@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          7
          ·
          1 year ago

          What makes you say the countries it goes through are going to be in debt because of it?

          My understanding is that they won’t be, however they will be practically giving away natural resources (eg copper for Afghanistan).

          • MuhammadJesusGaySex@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            5
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            Not all debt can be satisfied with money. A debt that is being paid, whether in money, natural resources, or the blood sweat tears and labor of your countrymen is still a debt.

            • TWeaK@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              5
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              You’re not really making sense. “A debt paid,… is still a debt that has to be paid”? If the debt is paid, it’s already been paid.

              Assuming Afghanistan owes China for the infrastructure, then that debt would be paid by giving them copper. Bought and paid for. So how are they saddled with debt? Where’s the trap?

              Obviously the deal will be a lot more complex, it might not be a great deal long term in some respects and I’m sure there’ll be a measure of corruption (there almost always is, everywhere), but at the end of the day Afghanistan is getting infrastructure it couldn’t build on its own and China is getting resources it otherwise wouldn’t have access to.

              • MuhammadJesusGaySex@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                5
                arrow-down
                4
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                Because the copper will be worth way more in the long run than the tech it’s funding. Plus China is notorious for putting their own people in charge of mining operations who are abusive to locals.

                I’m sure it’ll be a little more complex, but it doesn’t have to be. If China can secure cheap raw materials it helps to ensure that they can make things cheaper than anyone else.

                https://www.statista.com/statistics/744071/manufacturing-labor-costs-per-hour-china-vietnam-mexico/

                That link shows how China’s unskilled labor is now more expensive than a lot of their competitors. They need a new edge to stay relevant. The raw materials in Afghanistan is just one of many ways they are attempting to stay competitive.

                You’re right about my mis-type on the last thing I’m headed there to fix it. Thanks for pointing that out.

                • TWeaK@lemm.ee
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  5
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Yeah I’m sure China are doing it for their own advantage, but Afghanistan are still getting infrastructure they wouldn’t have had - in particular the route is going through the mountains, where there are no easy roads currently. There are significant benefits for thw other countries involved in the scheme, too.

    • bioemerl@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      27
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      I’m pretty confident next to none of them supported the Taliban. It really wouldn’t matter if they fought or not because they are a tiny minority in their country, and their contributions wouldn’t have changed a thing.

        • bioemerl@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          15
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          I’m not suggesting they do anything, except for the fact they got Delta shit sandwich and I’m not about to criticize them for doing or not doing anything, because it’s really not their fault they are where they are.

    • rambaroo@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      You mean the ANA that wasn’t even getting paid for the last 10 months of its existence? The US allowed corruption to fester in the Afghan government and their own contractors, yet Americans have the gall to blame Afghans for the situation Americans created.

      Always funny to see people on social media talking big about how other people should violently overthrow their government. Bunch of tough guy victim blaming bullshit. The US created this situation and failed to resolve it, that’s where the responsibility lies.