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This is the same government that says using an ad blocker, vpn, custom rom, linux and or encrypted messaging service puts you at higher suspicion of being a terrorist.
I see them enacting these policies now as the large number of pro labor protests fighting the government all over the country on pensions “reform”.
Well I’m sure terrorists don’t like seeing ads either but I’m not quite sure how they came to the conclusion that using an ad blocker makes you a terrorist.
France is a bit of a strange country though.
My guess in their logic is that you can’t be ad tracked.
That is of course if you believe that this blatantly authoritarian measure was actually done in response to terrorism.
They’re likely right for that assumption. Modern day terrorism I think would require a basic ability to use computers. It doesn’t make it likely, but more likely is probably right. I don’t expect much organized terrorism that’s not going to use some of those tools.
You’re right. If you’re a normie well, you’re a normie. Successor criminals and terrorists would not be tech normie’s and would certainly use some of these tools.
I still find further empowering the prosecutor I am state to be disgusting though.
Yeah but you guys still have the guillotines in storage or something though, right? Might be time to dust them off.
It bugs me that people will bitch about privacy all day but won’t do anything about it. Most people just go
What kind of Orwellian shit is the french government pulling?
At least what the French are doing is in the open. I remember when the
USEchelon program was leaked, what is their government up to now?The fact that they’re doing it out in the open is what really concerns me.
What are they doing in the dark if they’re okay with telling on themselves about this?
Look up the Pegasus Project. Governments have already been doing this. Now, they’re just doing it more openly.
France following in NSW foot steps
Removed by mod
Did anyone actually read the article or did we all just head straight for the comments section after reading the headline?
If we team up, only one of us has to read the article and can write the TLDR so we can hit the comments quicker!
this became reddit faster than i expected!
Read it, didn’t give information to dampen the initial outrage. Six months only for a dozen or so cases and not against doctors or journalist doesn’t sound that convincing to me. A judge must grant permission also doesn’t help imo as the act is still is a major privacy violation to all those who interact with the subject in any way.
The French government is pulling a “if you got nothing to hide, don’t worry about it”.
They say it’s gonna be limited to “when appropriate” but history shows whenever this sort of system is implemented, it’s scope of “when appropriate” gets broaden pretty quickly.
Did you? Headline sums it nicely to be honest. Only it’s not just phones. It opens all same horror show of digital freedoms / privacy the headline implies. Awful development.
I read the article, what’s in it that’s not all there in the title? The only thing I can think of is that they “claim” it’s only going to be used for specific things. But we all know how that goes…
How about the fact that it needs a judge’s approval and that surveillance is restricted to very specific cases for a limited amount of time?
When people hold conspiracy theories about the government being some monolithic engine of evil, or people who don’t believe government should exist because “muh freedoms”, any time an arm of the government is used as a check they just don’t care. It doesn’t matter that their beliefs have no basis in reality - they will dismiss any evidence contrary to their beliefs because it’s dangerous to their worldview. It wouldn’t matter if 1,000,000 warrants are denied for every 1 warrant approved - the one approval is all the evidence needed to claim tyranny.
You don’t have to be a conspiracy theorist to have serious misgivings about anyone, government or otherwise, being able to tap into your phone for any reason. They regularly go to the wrong damn house with warrants signed by judges and you want to trust them with full access to cameras inside our homes?
Except these warrants aren’t granted for “any reason” and I’m fairly sure you know that as well. Like I implied in my comment, the government is not some monolithic entity where all government employees conspire to deprive you, John Q. Public, of all of your rights.
My claim is only that no matter how well implemented a program may be, certain individuals will still claim corruption where none statistically exists. The whole point of our society is to implement laws, execute those laws, evaluate if those laws are having a positive affect on mitigating the problem it’s meant to solve, and change the law to address shortcomings or unnecessary bits.
Of course we should all be skeptical of the process, but arguing against change because we don’t feel like the results are going to be what we like is irrational. Past behavior is important to keep in mind but let’s not exaggerate and wax hyperbolic. It’s simple: If our elected officials aren’t implementing and reevaluating laws based on evidence/results, then it is our responsibility to remove those officials from power. If the roadblock to removing those in power are your fellow citizens, it’s your responsibility to help gain consensus in your community.
Tearing down, or dismissing, the system is not reasonable; that’s partly how in US politics we’ve become so polarized. People don’t have patience anymore for conversation or debate; they want immediate and immaculate change with 100% certainty and that’s unrealistic. Change is gradual and is never going to get it right out of the gate.
So come on, if you’re French, engage with your community and your elected officials to ensure that this law is implemented (or retracted) as honest as possible and stay engaged. Opinions without reasonable action is how fascism takes hold. I’m not sure how this law will turn out but I’m willing to be surprised that it gets implemented honestly. And if you’re not French, well, then I’m pretty sure yours and my opinions on how that citizenry chooses to govern is none of our business (outside of gross universal human rights violations and this is nowhere near the same galaxy).
It was always like that on reddit and will be the same here. Headline -> straight to the comments.
I guess it was inevitable with the influx of reddit users (I’m admittedly one of the recent converts myself). I just wish it took longer than it did.
If they are allowed to do these other countries will follow suit. This is a dangerous precedent in which no one is safe regardless of boarders.
During the 2020 protests in Portland, Or the US Marshalls flew a plane equipped cell phone snooping equipment over downtown for hours every day. The equipment acts as a mock cell tower so mobile phone traffic in the area gets routed through their tools before going to an actual tower. It also collects data from wifi in the area, in addition to whatever unknown abilities it has. This was around the time anonymous federal agents were picking up people off the streets in white vans and hiding in bushes shooting pepperballs at people walking by.
They should have tons of audio and video of the insurrection too then right? Or is this only a tool we use on democrats?
While I agree the right gets more of a pass, the capitol does actually have its own cell network and they did bust people whose phones were connected inside.
The major difference between January 6th and Portland was that on J 6 the police presence was minimal while Portland had paramilitary outfits roaming the streets.
I’m not buying a phone that rats me out.
Show me you have my back apple / android
They don’t. If you’re going to have a smart phone and don’t want them up in your shit get LineageOS or GrapheneOS.
Only solution is an older phone with custom ROM
@hydra @Shartacus or a linux phone, with kaios / pmos. Still not ready for everyone, but I hope it will come soon enought
FYI KaiOS is spyware garbage moreso than stock Android w/ gapps. Download a GSI rom if you want to run stock android on most phones post Android 8.1
@stratosmacker ho I have learn about this system only a few days ago and had no time to look further. That explain why they advertise with so much google app… thanks for the info :)
Sadly not too many options where I live.
If there is a custom ROM on it anyway, why would it need to be older?
Newer phones are harder to get custom ROMs on and most of them don’t have them.
Phones should be turned off or left at home anyways when protesting. Here are my 10 commandments for engaging in protests:
1: never bring your wallet/ID. If you need to buy things, bring cash
2: either shut off your phone or leave it with your wallet. Recording police violence can be useful, in that case get the aclu app, a burner phone with the app, or an action camera
3: never speak to police under any circumstance
4: you can beat the charge but you can’t beat the ride
5: bring water, it’s more useful than for just drinking
6: bring hats, sunglasses, etc to avoid being identified by the state if it gets violent
7: wear good running shoes
8: know your rights, both federal and local, and when to use them
9: take out any contact lenses in case police use tear gas
10: stay aware of your surroundings; listen to picket line enforcers/community organizers
These are all fine in the US, but in other countries not carrying proof of identity can get you into some trouble, as can refusing to talk to the police. Know your local laws.
It is what people say about Germany but my teacher says that she didn’t have an id card for 10 years and only got one because of tour to a place organised by her university required to show id card to be put in their touring list. As far as her experience goes, no authority ever put her in trouble for not carrying an ID.
The same way that the police never put me in trouble for mu id card not having my address.
About not talking to the police, it is actually a right you have in Germany despite popular gossip saying otherwise.
The problem of not talking to the police is that the police can create reasons to put you in troubles for not doing so, as the police have the privilege of authority, power and legal/public trust.
But when questioned by the police, if it is worth, you have the right to have e lawer to answer it for you or to guide you on your answer according to laws.
If you’re protesting, just expect to be arrested. Police already have reasons to want to arrest you, so talking to police only really gives them material to prosecute you when you are taken into custody. Talking to them may reduce their temptation to arrest you, but it certainly increases the chances they can charge you.
Don’t talk to the police, full stop. Doesn’t matter if you’re completely innocent, DONT TALK TO THEM. This is good advice generally but essential if you are protesting.
Again, depends on the country and the laws. Growing up in Turkey, the first question my parents would ask me when I was heading out would be: “Do you have your ID on you?”
Getting caught without ID meant the police had any excuse they needed to bring you in and do whatever they wanted with you. While under normal conditions that isn’t a problem, you never know when things are about to go awry and lead you into an altercation from which you can’t return.
E.g. a misunderstanding between you and a cop in a dark alley, matching the description of a perp they’re looking for while looking suspicious, saying something you shouldn’t while in a place you shouldn’t be, etc.
Keep your ID on you, avoid loud/aggressive crowds, and don’t talk to cops if you don’t have to. Wise advice for those living in tumultuous regions of the world.
I’d say it’s likely the same in Germany. Just depends on the circumstances.
Protests in modern times should change. Protests should turn city blocks into crazy multiday parties that are able to evade police and attract more and more people the longer it goes on.
Bring hot tubs and beer. Have bands playing good music. Offer free massages to people who can’t protest but are walking home from work and are kind of on the fence until you get your greasy protest hands on them and give em a beer and a little pat pat
If you stop a modern man, hand them a beer with back massage, that man will likely die for you. Good luck to any cops trying to shut you down when you got the 11th floor of the wall street stick market coming to your rally
Are you planning on protesting anytime soon? When and where. Youve sold it to me.
You should definitely have a phone. Anyone who can afford one of those cheap phones where you just pay for minutes should have one. Get one that can take pictures/videos (I think most of them do nowadays?).
If you see police doing something illegal, the more cameras around the better. The ability to immediately upload that evidence to someone else or a safe cloud service is also important so they can’t delete it and you can’t lose it by the taking the device.
never bring your … ID
IRC illegal in France and plenty of other EU countries. That alone will cause you issues, even if they can’t pin anything else on you.
never speak to police under any circumstance
Miranda rights aren’t universal. For example, in the UK authorities may draw adverse inferences based on silence.
No, you don’t need to have an ID: https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F11601
Yep but they can keep you or bring you un, because you cant make a proof of your identity. Its not entirely wrong
I mean, in several states within the US it’s illegal to protest without a permit. It’s better to act with your safety in mind than it is to obey oppressive laws.
Hahaha. Citizen, you may only express discontent we approve of you expressing.
what does 4 mean?
You can always be found not guilty in court, but if the police want to take you in, it’s better to just go willingly
Even if you’re innocent or the charge is BS, you still have to go through the process of being arrested, transported, booked, held in jail and posting bail.
The ride is the trip to jail.
Beating the charge means you are found not guilty in court.
Even if you are in the right and court will release you…that could be in 3 or 4 days time after you have spent time under arrest and had the “ride” to holding cell.
Wasn’t “not making this a thing” a point in The Dark Knight?
They tried, but “violating everyone’s privacy works” was also an inescapable point. Really undercut the message by making it so effective.
If you read the article it’s nothing like that. This place is already turning into reddit and that’s not good.
The NSA did it first
I wonder if Apple will make a public statement on this.
Yeah, that’s my thought. It’s all well & good to say they can, but how? It’s not a capability of the OS, so the only way this could work is some kind of carrier patch (?) or an unpatched bug.
WTF Macron? What happened to “Liberté, égalité, fraternité”? This is some “bullshité” if you ask me.
He never gave a shit.
I remember Macron once was like “well, US is too free for us, China is too restrictive, we need to be in the middle”.
The Orbánization of the European right continues.
But lawmakers agreed to the bill late Wednesday as Justice Minister Eric Dupond-Moretti insisted the bill would affect only “dozens of cases a year.”
Precisely why it should not be passed! That’s not a good reason at all. It’s not worth eroding people’s rights if it only affects a few cases in my personal opinion. It shows that the law doesn’t need to exist in the first place.
Also… what kind of argument is that? It may be dozens a year but once it is normalized with those dozens, it will become few dozens and on and on it goes.
Not a general slippery slope argument, but rather, it’s clear how it makes future erosion easier.
Today: People named Joe who live at this address can be harassed freely and that’s perfectly legal. Tomorrow: It’s not so extreme! Look, see, we’ve never universally respected these rights anyway. There are cases where we legally ignored them. We’re just expanding existing rules to cover more cases.
I always love when governments ask for powers to stop only a few cases, and act like it’s justification. Maybe, just maybe, do your job.
It’s like the Apple case for building a backdoor that makes everyone less safe to catch one criminal. They ended up not needing it anyway.
This is scary because it could be exploited very easily by bad actors and is a huge invasion of privacy
This is coming in the wake of protests against pension reform being rammed through and riots over police killing kids.
There’s zero reason to believe “being exploited by bad actors” isn’t the point.
Not only rammed through against the will of the people, but President Macaroon didn’t even let Parliament have a say in it.
The French state is a bad actor already.
“Bad actors” -> like the police?
These types of laws are created to be abused. The state knows they’ll be used to erode rights.
