• mindbleach
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      1 year ago

      Okay, so you’d be down for sensible legislation that takes the right to bear arms as an absolute.

      Like if we registered and tracked all firearms, without changing who can buy which ones.

      • BaldProphet@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        Those laws would be infringements, and are illegal under the Second Amendment.

        infringe: to encroach upon in a way that violates law or the rights of another

        • mindbleach
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          1 year ago

          Does a right to bear arms mean something besides owning and carrying loaded guns? Because writing down who has which guns does not stop that in any way.

          Unless maybe you’re picking the conclusion you want and working backwards.

          Here’s a fun one: should full-auto submachineguns be available at 7-11?

          • BaldProphet@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            I won’t make a comment on whether automatic submachine guns should or shouldn’t be available at a convenience store. But I will state that under the Second Amendment, any law that prevents people from owning and using submachine guns is illegal.

            • mindbleach
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              1 year ago

              That’s pretty “should,” guy.

              That’s straight-up endorsing 7-11’s ability to sell literally any gun to literally anybody. If you have hesitations about whether that’s a fucking terrible idea… good. Maybe we can talk about that.

                • mindbleach
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                  1 year ago

                  Either you think full-auto should be unrestricted or you don’t.

                  And if you don’t, great, let’s talk about which restrictions you like.

            • norbert@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              Your exceptionally narrow view of and focus on singular word in an amendment is hilarious.

    • Zorque@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      I’d love to violate the second amendment! Can you define it in more than four words?

          • BaldProphet@kbin.social
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            1 year ago
            1. What right is the amendment about? The right to keep and bear arms.
            2. Whose right is it? The people.
            3. What shall be done with this right? It shall not be infringed.

            The rest only explains the reason why the amendment was written and doesn’t alter the above facts. Let’s rewrite it a bit to be more understandable:

            A well balanced breakfast, being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food, shall not be infringed.

            Is it the right of the well balanced breakfast, or the right of the people, in this case, to keep and eat food? Of course, it is the right of the people. What shall be done with it? It shall not be infringed upon. If you dictate to me what food I am allowed to store in my cupboards and in what circumstances I am allowed to eat it, you are infringing upon my right to keep and eat food.

            • mindbleach
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              1 year ago

              If your food isn’t for breakfast, that law has nothing to do with it.

              Invoking other arguments for eating would be a fallacy. Your own stupid analogy just says: breakfast.

                • mindbleach
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                  1 year ago

                  No, it’s definitely this gun nut arguing the intent of a law does not matter.

                  We know what a militia is for. We know why randos owning guns was necessary, to raise a militia. But we don’t do that anymore. We have a standing army. The second amendment might as well say “slave revolts are dangerous, so everybody’s gotta get armed.”

                  But this guy’s trying to pretend the need for food must be exactly as important as his need for guns, and that nobody will notice his analogy friggin’ blows.

                  • BaldProphet@kbin.social
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                    1 year ago

                    Don’t put words in my mouth. I never said that “the need for food must be exactly as important” as my need for guns. I used different wording to illustrate that the right is granted to the people, not the militia. That you don’t understand the Second Amendment, even when reworded so that even a kindergartner would understand it, is telling.

              • BaldProphet@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                Debating this with you is obviously pointless. Nowhere does the amendment state that arms are only to be used within a militia.

                • mindbleach
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                  1 year ago

                  ‘Because an army is necessary to maintain democracy, people should have guns.’

                  The whole thing is one sentence long, and there’s only one stated reason in that sentence.

            • norbert@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              I get it, you’re an individualist, you won’t find me arguing against an individuals right to own guns; however I disagree with your analysis. Your interpretation of “infringed” seems to be “anything preventing.” Well-regulated in the context of the 2nd amendment implies the imposition of proper training and discipline. This has actually already been decided.

              DC v. Heller (which ruled on the individual right to bear arms in 2008) states:
              Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose

              • BaldProphet@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                It’s not my interpretation of “infringed”. It’s the Merriam-Webster definition of the word.

                • mindbleach
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                  1 year ago

                  Right, like how voter registration infringes on the right to vote.

                • norbert@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  Laws in the US aren’t written by Merriam-Webster, if they were we’d have a lot fewer cases as lawyers wouldn’t argue the meaning of words.

                  The Supreme Court has ruled the 2nd amendment is not carte Blanche to own whatever you like. You’re like a typical republican, absolutely unwilling to compromise or meet in the middle. It’s your way or the highway. Let’s see how that works out for you over the next few decades.