You literally said “no recurring costs” (subscription) and “no up-front costs” (price). I’m not sure what other takeaway I was supposed to have from that comment.
Either way, it still sounds like you’re expecting developers to work for free, so that you can play video games without paying for them. That’s a really weird sense of entitlement, imo.
Jesus! This subject invites the most aggressively poor reading comprehension of any topic on the internet.
My entire fucking argument is JUST SELL GAMES, and people will bend over inside-out to find some way to scoff ‘you want it for free.’ Because apparently that’s the only position you’re prepared to deal with, y’might as well pretend that’s what’s happening.
I really don’t understand what difference “products” or “services” is supposed to make in this argument, though. Many games these days are a service, a fact which is inherently true for an MMO like WoW. MMOs require active and ongoing development and support in order to function. That’s just the nature of that type of game.
If you want single-player, offline games that only require a one-time purchase, those still exist. But WoW is not that game, and has no intention to ever be, nor do the players have any expectation that it would operate in such a manner.
Maybe instead of getting defensive, you could just clarify wtf you’re talking about, or at least take into consideration the context of live-service games, which is what this discussion is specifically about.
Subscription services are fine. Just… don’t charge… up-front.
I do not know how to make this more clear or simple.
… and goddammit I do have to complicate this because you dragged “live service” games into it. Those generally aren’t a product or a service. They’re a scam. They’re a no-cover-charge casino that will gladly take unlimited sums of your actual money in exchange for approximately nothing.
My guy, are we even having the same discussion here?
Considering you thought ‘don’t charge up-front for subscription games’ meant ‘destroy all subscription games,’ evidently fucking not.
There’s at least almost an argument for applying “live service” to anything that’s not a standalone title - but no, the term mostly exists to distinguish them from games that are subscription-based. We have another term for those. It’s “subscription-based.” The alternative is microtransaction hell. Or “season pass” nonsense, which is macrotransaction hell. Games that ostensibly do not cost money… but somehow pull in billions upon billions of dollars.
Considering you thought ‘don’t charge up-front for subscription games’ meant ‘destroy all subscription games,’ evidently fucking not.
I never said or suggested this, so your “reading comprehension” complaints are a little ironic now. I was trying to figure out what you were trying to say, which I still don’t fully understand.
It seems like your argument is more “I don’t like these types of games, so nobody else should”. And it’s fine to not like live service games; they’re not for everybody. But for millions of people out there, that’s the type of game they want to play, and are willing to pay for. You can make the argument that microtransactions or subscription fees are predatory, which is fine, but nobody’s obligated to pay for those; people choose to because they want to play a live service game, which is a product an a service which is not free to develop or maintain.
So wait, are developers supposed to labor for free then? I’m not sure how that’s even close to being feasible in any scenario.
“Subscription or price, not both.”
“So nothing?!?”
Stop talking.
You literally said “no recurring costs” (subscription) and “no up-front costs” (price). I’m not sure what other takeaway I was supposed to have from that comment.
Either way, it still sounds like you’re expecting developers to work for free, so that you can play video games without paying for them. That’s a really weird sense of entitlement, imo.
No recurring costs FOR PRODUCTS.
No up-front fees FOR SERVICES.
Jesus! This subject invites the most aggressively poor reading comprehension of any topic on the internet.
My entire fucking argument is JUST SELL GAMES, and people will bend over inside-out to find some way to scoff ‘you want it for free.’ Because apparently that’s the only position you’re prepared to deal with, y’might as well pretend that’s what’s happening.
I really don’t understand what difference “products” or “services” is supposed to make in this argument, though. Many games these days are a service, a fact which is inherently true for an MMO like WoW. MMOs require active and ongoing development and support in order to function. That’s just the nature of that type of game.
If you want single-player, offline games that only require a one-time purchase, those still exist. But WoW is not that game, and has no intention to ever be, nor do the players have any expectation that it would operate in such a manner.
Maybe instead of getting defensive, you could just clarify wtf you’re talking about, or at least take into consideration the context of live-service games, which is what this discussion is specifically about.
Subscription services are fine. Just… don’t charge… up-front.
I do not know how to make this more clear or simple.
… and goddammit I do have to complicate this because you dragged “live service” games into it. Those generally aren’t a product or a service. They’re a scam. They’re a no-cover-charge casino that will gladly take unlimited sums of your actual money in exchange for approximately nothing.
I didn’t drag live-service games into this. This thread is literally about World of Warcraft, a live-service game.
My guy, are we even having the same discussion here?
Considering you thought ‘don’t charge up-front for subscription games’ meant ‘destroy all subscription games,’ evidently fucking not.
There’s at least almost an argument for applying “live service” to anything that’s not a standalone title - but no, the term mostly exists to distinguish them from games that are subscription-based. We have another term for those. It’s “subscription-based.” The alternative is microtransaction hell. Or “season pass” nonsense, which is macrotransaction hell. Games that ostensibly do not cost money… but somehow pull in billions upon billions of dollars.
I never said or suggested this, so your “reading comprehension” complaints are a little ironic now. I was trying to figure out what you were trying to say, which I still don’t fully understand.
It seems like your argument is more “I don’t like these types of games, so nobody else should”. And it’s fine to not like live service games; they’re not for everybody. But for millions of people out there, that’s the type of game they want to play, and are willing to pay for. You can make the argument that microtransactions or subscription fees are predatory, which is fine, but nobody’s obligated to pay for those; people choose to because they want to play a live service game, which is a product an a service which is not free to develop or maintain.