Image transcription:
it’s a swole doge vs cheems meme
on swole doge side, there are two popups: kCrash and Ubuntu apport. Both have options to see detailed logs and an optional button to send report to developers, along with options to close the popup.
accompanied is a text that reads “Here’s the information. What do you wish to do?”
on crying cheems side, there’s popup for windows and mac. windows has just a cancel button with report being sent already. mac has ignore and report button. there is no option to see logs without reporting on both. here, accompanied text reads, “let’s add this to the personally identifiable information we have on you.”
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Two things irritate the shit out of me. First, the “wait while we report this to Microsoft” dialog comes up and implies its transmitting immediately, even for trivial issues, without asking for your confirmation and without indicating what, exactly, it’s sending. (I guess that’s the point of this meme. But a yes/no prompt would be nice?)
Second is that it does it for absolutely trivial things. Like, the crap point of sale software we use at work can be easily and repeatably made to go into an infinite loop state if you know how to do it, and you have to kill it via Task Manager or whatever. But then this stupid “we’re reporting this to Microsoft” dialog comes up. Oh yeah? You’re reporting it, are you? What the fuck is Microsoft going to do about it, exactly? Send a helicopter so Bill Gates himself can rappel down and bust through the skylight at the office of this two-bit POS software company, guns blazing, hack into their mainframe, and fix their code?
What a useless thing to show the user.
lol, I like your way with words. and I fully agree and share the sentiment(hence the meme).
I disliked crash reporting on windows precisely because of inability to cancel it(by the time you hit cancel, it might’ve already been sent).nowadays, I don’t use windows at all. sometimes I’m forced to use macos, and this popup comes up. I dislike this one too since I can’t really see what it’s going to send.
on my home machine I have Debian with i3 and xfce, which hasn’t crashed a single time. and even if it does in some distant future, I’ll be more than happy to send technical info to them.
You can disable error reporting on Windows, by the way. Disable the “Windows Error Reporting” service. Either via Task Manager, or services.msc, or whatever your preferred method is.
don’t use windows now. but will keep it in mind in case i encounter an unfortunate device infected with it.
To be fair most applications don’t give you shit till you launch it in a terminal. That’s something I’d wish would improve on Linux. My mother would get pretty frustrated so I assume most average people would be too.
For example lutris recognizes your missing wine but it just loads indefinitely.
If you don’t have all the dependencies for alacrity it just doesn’t launch.
If you don’t have all the dependencies for gparted on Wayland it just doesn’t launch.
Most apps don’t create error messages in the gui and that’s hard for average users to grasp.
Most apps don’t create error messages in the gui and that’s hard for average users to grasp.
I just went through 3 fucking days of troubleshooting why this program wont work. Finally issued a bug report, it got closed in 30 minutes, dev responded with “ya, those features are currently disabled, terminal will show you a warning when you launch it”.
Great. And nothing for the GUI users?
The biggest annoyance to me is that Linux fanboys will say how you never have to touch a terminal if you don’t want to, but when you bring up how ridiculous it is to disable features, keep them enabled on the GUI, and only throw a warning in the terminal, they’ll tell you to use the terminal lol.
I’ve found anyone saying “you barely need to touch the command line” is straight up lying. You can do a lot with GUIs, but they’ll always be second class citizens for Linux software developers because those developers do everything through the terminal.
As far as I’m concerned still worth it compared to the state of proprietary OSes now a days. The online language model image generation features especially worry me due to the limitless data collection and scrapping capabilities. “Justified” collection of emails, word docs, images, videos, cameras, audio recordings, etc.
Most people won’t bat an eye until their most intimate details are sitting in a stack of papers on some lawyers desk awaiting a trial over some data breach or antitrust practices.
I’m not arguing against Linux. Use whatever you want. It’s just stop acting like Linux is GUI friendly when it’s extremely dependent on if the dev is competent or not.
Also, whatever OS you use wont save you in data breaches. Just because you use Linux doesn’t mean your Ashley Madison affair data is safe.
No one’s making accusations here it’s just easier to avoided something like a Facebook–Cambridge Analytica data scandal when your os doesn’t require an online cloud account to set it up or use advertised features.
I am annoyed whenever I launched something from dmenu and I don’t get error output or logs anywhere.
I do wonder why you would have missing dependencies for all of these applications? Shouldn’t your package manager handle that…?
I was playing with Hyprland back when it was only in the aur. I found it weird too but on something like kde the dependencies must already be there. Also lutris never comes with wine dependencies for some reason.
I think Lutris can install its own versions of wine which is probably why it’s not included (also you don’t need to use wine at all with Lutris). I guess I’m not surprised you ran into these issues on Arch. I wouldn’t expect this on the more mainstream distros a new Linux user would be likely to use, since these distros are more likely to take a batteries included approach to packaging. I’d hope running into missing dependencies when launching a program is a fairly uncommon experience, at least for anything installed with a package manager on most systems.
On MacOS if you click on the “Report…” button it expands to something similar to what you see on the left.
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I’m pretty sure this only goes to Apple, not to the actual developer.
I believe I’ve even seen devs specifically ask for copies of the reports from the crash reporter, as they wouldn’t receive them otherwise.
this doesn’t change the rest of your statement though, just afaik the recipient is different.
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based on https://help.apple.com/xcode/mac/current/#/deve2819c518 it seems like users may need to explicitly enable sharing crash data with app developers.
I don’t know what the default for this is.
https://help.apple.com/xcode/mac/current/#/dev9a80ab71d seems to imply that you need to distribute your app via app store or testflight to be able to receive crash reports.
the majority of apps installed on my mac are not installed via app store, though many of them have app store variants.
i don’t know if the distribution channel matters or just having the app in app store is enough.
this article however also explicitly states this, so it appears that you do indeed by default not send this data to app developers:users who download your app from the App Store will need to agree to share crash and usage data with developers.
thanks! never clicked that for fear that they’d do something similar to windows.
I’ll try it next time it comes up.maybe there should be a third button for less confusion? or does it go against apple’s “design” principles? :p
To demonstrate I got an app to crash, this is what you see when you click on the report button. The report is longer, trying to show where the app crashed, at the bottom there’s a button to send a report to apple
looks much better than what I’d thought. thanks for sharing mate! BTW, the interface is in French, right?
Yes, on the bottom it says on the left to hide the details, and on the right don’t send and send to apple.
update: doesn’t have button on my machine.
just two buttons: show/hide details, and report. can’t even go back or close it.
maybe there should be a third button for less confusion?
I think it’s fine as is. Three dots after a button / menu item imply more interaction is required before an action is taken.
“Intuitive” design
KDE’s way is the best way
haven’t used KDE, but it really looks an ideal crash reporter. even has stars for quality of logs.
I might be doing something wrong, but the crash reports themselves are damn near useless
yes, there should be a description box for sending additional inputs from the user. like what were they trying to do.
but GNU/Linux developers are already saddled with a lot of work, and I don’t mind restarting the app at all. :)
I seem to remember that a text input field for details is available in the general tab.
I don’t get many crashes in kde so I haven’t seen the dialogue in a while.
I have a question, how the hell does task manager stop responding and there still to have a crash report
The Apple one is basically the same as the Linux, detailed crash report with option to send to the dev.
me: ugh this program won’t work lemme ctrl alt delete
windows: hold on lemme spend three minutes reporting this to microsoft
Smash that cancel button!
“Because of a problem” made me laugh for some reason.
If you don’t even open Event Viewer on Windows, are you really so computer savvy as you claim you are?
Oh god, this gives me PTSD of trying to troubleshoots my buddies new machine which I built. I will die happy if I never have to so much as look at the event viewer ever again.
Well of course they need to report your information to Microsoft, after all the application crashed on your computer and since it’s a Microsoft application it can’t be the fault of the application (also why you don’t see an error Log) so you must have been holding it wrong so they need your info to find out how you were holding it wrong.
if you want to see the logs you have eventmgr.msc which consolidates all logs in one place.
As stated above. I know that there are actual logs produced (I honestly would not have known where to look for them by heart but that’s my shortcoming) my comment was meant to be sarcastic sorry for dropping that /s
The fuck are you smoking?
Or (which is a lot more likely) it sends data so Microsoft can improve the software and fix the bug that you encountered in their software.
(Why would they want to receive crash dumps if they don’t believe to be at fault? That is just dumb logic)
If you want to see logs, you can just open the Event Viewer. It is a bit hidden because non-tech savvy people like you don’t understand it.
Sorry I thought I was exaggerating enough but once again sarcasm doesn’t come through on the internet.
I know that actual logs are produced and can be viewed and I know that there are actual crash dumps being sent that are actually used for improvement.
Whole I don’t believe in the “hide what’s happening from the user” approach I get that Microsoft isn’t actually malicious or hates their users.
Again sorry for dropping the /s
only once have i seen the crash reporter in windows actually do something beneficial and report back an actual fix.
I’d love to switch to linux. But I love the video games, and I’m a pirate, because I’m broke. Until Linux gets real support for games, I can’t join.
With proton, Linux can play almost all games just fine. Is it 100%? No. But it is good enough to no longer make that an excuse anymore.
I’ve been trying for 3 hours to get fedora installed with working Nvidia drivers. Fuck Linux users and their bullshit elitist attitude, this OS is nowhere near user friendly
“Nvidia” and “Linux” in the same message is the problem I am seeing here.
Long story short be mad at Nvidia for not having properly supported drivers, they only just allowed opensource drivers but its very much still alpha software.
They’re literally releasing official versions for Linux. I’m not going to be mad at Nvidia, I’m going to be mad at the Linux community at this point for saying in another thread where I was asking about Nvidia support, and they responded 'nah shouldn’t be an issue, there are only rarely Nvidia issues. Fucking. Liars.
Official versions sure, but proprietary and they only work with X11 which is essentially deprecated.
Wayland is replacing X11, Nvidia has made no serious attempts to support Wayland in their proprietary drivers. Fedora, Ubuntu, and now Debian (the core three) have all moved to Wayland by default.
So what you’re saying is don’t use Linux if you’re on Nvidia, got it.
Nvidia does take serious steps to support Wayland. Only since like half a year ago and not extremely fast but serious steps non the less.
I only had a driver issue with Nvidia once in more than 10 years running Linux with Nvidia exclusively (need Nvidia for Cuda (and Cuda for work)) and that was fixed by temporarily downgrading
I’ve been tested Linux since 2005 every time I have to reinstall windows and I’ve never once been able to get Nvidia to work easily. I’ve done it but it’s always been a bitch and a half.
I wish I had that experience. I’ve had issues on every machine/distro I’ve tried to get NVidia working on. Fedora, Manjaro, Mint, Ubuntu, you name it, there’s been driver issues.
Apparently newer cars (20 series or newer) have a lot more problems
Currently I’ve a 3090 before that I had a 1060 and the 3090 I bought almost at release. I genuinely never had a problem.
I hate saying this because of the all the toxic attitudes around but I ran gentoo and now arch Linux. Maybe they package the proprietary driver better?
I’ve had literally one instance of linux not playing well with nvidia drivers, and I was running a version of ubuntu more than a year out of updates. Switched to popOS and everything works out the box.
There’s distros confirmed to work for just about every setup, just find one of them to start with rather than troubleshooting yourself in the foot.
Nobara has them preconfigured. Fedora just makes it tricky because of licencing issues and if you aren’t bothered, you may as well use Nobara.
I couldn’t even get the live version of Nobara to work. The live USB just said “kernel error”.
I wouldn’t say elitist, when most Linux users are trying to get more people to use it. Most are just trying to help show there are better ways, and you have options, instead of just taking whatever shit Microsoft gives you.
If you are perfectly happy with Windows, by all means stick to it. It’s a fine operating system. However, if you can get through the learning curve and accept not all hardware manufacturers will support Linux well. It opens up a lot of power and capabilities.
It can’t even do basic shit like mount a network drive. Trash OS is trash. I adapted to Mac just fine and android just fine. This bullshit OS will never be made easy to use, that much is apparent.
It can’t even do basic shit like mount a network drive.
I use KDE and mounting a network drive in dolphin was very easy. Not difficult in nautilus either
Try a samba v1 network drive and get back to me.
You can use the file manager program or the disk utility for a permanent mount. It works a bit differently than windows. However, it sounds like you are not willing to learn. So I would recommend sticking to Windows.
You should check out my submissions. I’m on day 3 of documenting my linux experience.
It wasn’t a simple fix. The drive was off an ASUS router which uses samba v1 and the fix was reenabling it via editing the text files, then the specific mount command in fstab required a ‘ver=1’ argument to be manually placed in there.
So no my assessment that this is not an easy process is spot on, and I’ve spent 3 days setting up and configuring linux at this point, all of which I could have done in an hour in Windows.
Yeah, for sure, complex things like that require jumping into config files such as the fstab. Very nice you figured it out! I’ve been there too.
I don’t doubt it would be faster and easier to do in Windows when the router manufacturer intended for users to be using Windows. You are going against the grain sometimes when using Linux, but it is ever so much more satisfying when you do get it working :)
Just get a distro which ships them by default. I am once again gonna shill Garuda Linux - feels like I do this a couple of times each week.
Garuda Linux
I may eventually check that out. I was hoping to use a basic version of Linux then configure it for gaming myself to learn a bit, but am quickly realizing that Linux is still as absolutely unfriendly and unusable as it was 20 years ago.
@Phanlix @Holzkohlen Sorry but I can’t agree with you on the user friendly side. KDE and Gnome ( to name a few ) have made incredible advancements on that side. While its true some commands are still required, once you get used GNU/Linux imo is better than Windows ( I love being able to install lots of software from one single place, the package manager ).
You should take small steps, dont try to rush your learning experience, enjoy it. If you want to become proficient with a completly different ideology of an OS as Linux is compared to Windows… dont even try Linux, you are going to suffer
How do you map a network drive? I’ve literally put 8 hours of my fucking life trying to figure it out and I can’t get it to work. It’s a must have thing for me to stay in Linux.
@Phanlix I guess you want to mount it so it can be accessed. In that case you need to know what type of protocol its using. Im going to make a guess and say samba.
In that case you need to search for samba documentation for your distro, funny right? Many steps… but not complex.I believe you said you were using Fedora, then once again Im guessing, you are using Gnome.
Gnome means Nautilus is your file explorer’s name.The following link is about how to add it on Nautilus, for the smbclient package you should search whats the Fedora equivalent.
https://mangolassi.it/topic/19398/how-to-mount-a-windows-share-in-nautilus-on-ubuntu
Edit: Fedora packages added, can’t confirm sorry
dnf install samba samba-common samba-client
Source: https://www.tecmint.com/install-samba-rhel-centos-fedora/
OK that’s just user error: I want to do what experts are doing but it isn’t easy. Why are these experts so elitist! Cry me a river.
There are a lot of pre-made solutions that are user friendly smh
Name them. Because nothing I can find on any forum is working.
It’s funny you have to be an expert to get basic functionality lol
Dual boot or vm or use proton. The steam deck uses Linux and uses proton. I haven’t had a game not run smoothly while using proton either.
I tried dual booting for a while but eventually I just stopped using the Linux side. Didn’t really have a reason to switch over when everything worked fine on Windows. Id just keep using windows after I used whatever software or game only worked on windows cause it was just more convenient. I did really like Linux and there were a lot of really cool things about it but until Linux reaches a point where all the big games, both on and off steam, work on Linux without having to follow some guide I just don’t think it’s for me.
@WarlordSdocy @ExperimentalGuy
I have the same and opposite issue.
Part of the reason that I am always using #linux is because so much of my workflow these days requires Linux, that when I play something like a #bethesda game (modding them is just less of a hassle on Windows) it just feels wrong and uncomfortable.
just asking have you tried teamtinkerlaunch with that mo2 and vortex work fine on linux i even get better performance with proton and it fixes my sound issues i had with skyrim on windows and you can do a windll override to fix the wanky mouse movements
No, I’ll have to check it out, thanks for the tip.
Exact same thing here. Once I needed to reboot multiple times per day to use my computer I’m just angry and unhappy with the tool that’s no longer doing the job I need it to.
Since the games I play are primarily windows only, I stuck with the side I spend most of my time in.
Ya that makes sense. I find a lot of my work is mostly stuff that’s easier to use on Linux, like spinning up VMs or just programming in general. What programs do you use that aren’t compatible or dont have an alternative on Linux?
It was mostly games (mainly Microsoft ones, no surprise there) and the fact that at the time I was going to college for game programming, so needed to use stuff like Unity and Unreal Engine. Which I think I saw with Unreal Engine you can make it work on Linux but you had to like compile it yourself and I didn’t want to deal with running into problems with that since I was using it for my classes. Although now that I’ve graduated I might give it a try, see if anything has changed since I last gave Linux a shot. Just seems like in general a lot of game development stuff is done more on Windows unless you’re not using a commercial engine.
Omg yeah that makes sense. I have the same thing but with excel, one of my classes it’s like a must have so I just pop open a VM to get it running bc I don’t want to figure out how to wine it. I’m using PopOS rn and it’s really easy to use and install drivers, so if you’re gonna get back into a Linux distro I’d def recommend that.
Pop Os was actually what I used before funnily enough and yeah I found it really nice. Probably will try that again when I get the chance.
Knowing that steamdeck uses Linux does give me hope. I’m rocking a 3080ti though, how’s that Nvidia support coming along these days?
Next build will likely be AMD, but unfortunately I build PCs to last.
My first PC had dual 660s SLI, which was over 16 years ago and can still handle most AAA games. Baldurs Gate 3 was the first to make it run in low graphics.
My second PC was built when the 1080ti came out and that’s still running my VR room.
This PC I just built is similarly designed to last upwards of a decade, and still will be a contender after that. So maybe another 7 to 10 years before I build a Linux PC .
I’m old enough to remember when wine came out and how excited everyone was we were finally going to have games in Linux lol.
Nvidia support’s pretty good honestly from my experience. I have a 2000s series in my computer rn and I haven’t run into any issues honestly
Seriously? Hmmmmm well I guess we’ll try linux for the umpteenth time again. I’m seeing some new program names and processes here since last time I tried, so who knows? It may actually be up to the task for my day to day. That’d be nice, I’m not a fan of cloud based Operating systems. I bought my hardware, I like to own it, not give it to whatever software corp is installed on it.
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so I decided to try linux. After reading a bit I decided that Fedora sounded like the distro for me with the top ‘spin’.
Black screen. Not Nvidea compatible out of the box. Booted into ‘basic graphics’. Looks like total ass on 800x600. Tried to follow a tutorial to get it running, but it didn’t want to make changes to the USB version and wanted me to full boot. I didn’t want to full wipe my windows just yet, but we’re getting there. Found a tutorial about using some semi-auto process to do it, so wish me luck.
I bet this goes like last time though, given that I already can’t even run Linux out of the goddamn box on what is one of the most popular graphics card series ever. I bet I get frustrated trying to make half my shit work like an xbox controller because nothing, and I repeat nothing on this trash OS works without some level of headache.
For giggles I tried nobara linux which bills itself as a fully configured gaming version of fedora. Unsurprisingly it had a kernel error when booting from USB off the rip lol.
“Few and far issues between” = completely doesn’t work at all on the what is arguably the top linux distro today, sounds about right.
Sounds like you’ve been very unlucky. Even the open-source Nvidia driver should work out of the box and look OK. Performance is ass, but it’s good enough for a usable desktop experience (usable enough to install the proprietary nVidia driver, which at least on Ubuntu’s are just a few clicks in the GUI)
Instead of going Fedora, try PopOS. PopOS has a special ISO for nVidia graphics. Trying to “install” the Nvidia driver yourself on a live USB boot is not the way to go. I doubt it’s even possible.
I’ve been on (K)Ubuntu, and XBox controllers have literally just been plug and play. I could even use the KDE game controller settings page to compensate for the drift in my left joystick.
Another option is Bazzite, which is a version of Fedora Immutable (“Silverblue”) that comes with all the bells and whistles for gaming, including Nvidia drivers. However the immutable part may or may not be to your taste.
Yeah it was honestly weird for me too bc I had always heard that you need to go team red if you want to use Linux but i don’t know if it’s that everyone else is lying or I’m amazing but I’ll just assume I’m goated with the sauce
The Nvidia driver has very good performance, and for most usecases it’s… Fine. But it does bring extra hoops and issues. There’s a reason many distros have started to ship the “normal ISO” and the “nVidia ISO”.
The nVidia driver also uses kernel modules, which can interfere with secure boot.
And many modern features are developed for Wayland-only: Mixed refresh rate, mixed fractional scaling, HDR etc. And nVidia is behind on Wayland support, since they only recently decided to cave on and use the same pipeline as AMD/Intel instead of their own.
i have a 2080 super in my main pc and a 3050 ti in my laptop both work fine
distro?
endevaros with i3 and propaiatory nvidia drivers
what game can’t you play on Linux ?
Basically anything with anticheat either isn’t supported or it breaks consistently.
Isn’t anti-cheat mostly used for multi-player games, which usually won’t work when pirated anyway?
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Idk, I don’t pirate games.
idk, i don’t play game with kernel level anticheat :)
also the games who require more gaming specs than they should
Just use Bottles or Heroic Launcher to play the pirated games on your computer. Most of the games I tried have worked.
The only exceptions are Multiplayer games like Apex and valorant. Apex is not smooth enough to play competitively (last I checked was a few months ago) and Valorant doesnt work on Linux because of it’s rootkit anti cheat. If you only play single player games Linux is definitely worth a shot.
If it weren’t for a few Multiplayer games and my crappy epson printer I’d have completely wiped windows off of my computer.
I have a question, how the hell does task manager stop responding and there still to have a crash report
Because Windows isn’t that bad of an OS the Linux community believes it to be.
You’re right, it’s worse
I have a question, how the hell does task manager stop responding and there still to have a crash report
