And the question I struggle to answer, why is it bad? Was it inescapable or god thought it is while it isn’t? Seeing it as a bad parenting issue adds some context. And I don’t feel like Satan giving an apple could become that influential if god himself wasn’t shy to share what he knows, it only became a problem because he didn’t. He built the Gardens of Eden on lies and when it became obvious, he just dropped their children into adult life miserably unprepared.

I’m guessing it was me that pressed that comment? I like to use the argument to show that the whole point of the garden was to kick humanity (that is, adam and eve) out.

There are, however some points that need to be made. The serpent in genesis is (probably) not Satan. The conflation comes from revelations, (12:9, 20;2), where Satan is described as ‘the serpent of old’. or as a dragon or serpent. This is more… symbolic. linking the two is a bit of a stretch, especially considering that the serpent was cursed to be legless- which is a physical curse and Satan is not a physical being. (and also to be always crushed under our heel… which is something we do to snakes.)

Secondly, there’s two issues as to why it was bad according to scripture. the first is that it was disobedient. god told them not to eat the apple they did. this is the original sin because it was the first time somebody disobeyed. keep in mind, sin is defined as ‘anything that separates man from god’. There’s a lot of things that piss god off, and like an abusive spouse, it’s always our fault.

As to why he didn’t want them eating it, some clues are given in the only other tree they were forbidden from snacking on: the tree of life. he justifies banishing them from the garden, fearing that if they eat from the tree of life, they’ll “become like us.”- presumably immortal.

Remember, that humanity was special in that we were made “in his image”. There’s a lot of questions as to what that actually means- the general consensus was that it was the gift of intellect, reasoning and possibly language (though this is steadily being eroded.); regardless, having obtained understanding of right from wrong… it was deemed imperative that humanity gets yeeted from the garden.

In any case, it’s important to note that the behavior of god in this story is the kind of behavior of an abuser. Blaming the kid/dog/whatever for eating the pizza rather than accepting that it was left where they could get to it. and it gets worse.

We were created with the intention that we have free will. So that we could chose to worship him. and chose to be obedient to him. We could not make a moral choice without knowledge of good and evil. we couldn’t fulfill the purpose given us- to chose to be with him- without it. So it was always going to be necessary that we eat of the fruit.

In fact, it’s very likely that god sent the serpent himself; and not satan. you know. To plant the idea. remember, god is also omniscient- that is all-knowing. including the future. (which is how, they’ll insist, there can be prophecy.) So, we have a god who knew what was going down- has always known it would go down- not intervening before they fuck up, placing them in a garden with two trees they can’t touch, with a serpent that god knows will tell them to try it. and he lets it happen and then, just as that LSD trip is wearing off, comes in wagging his finger and rubbing their nose in it.

If I’m remembering my biblical historical lit crit correctly, the whole Eden thing was an adaptation of an existing mythology but reappropriated by a religious-political movement that was trying to consolidate power under a henotheistic theological model, as opposed to the currently existing polytheistic one.

In the original religion of the region, El was the father-god, Ashera was his wife/consort, and Yahweh, Baal, and somewhere between tween a dozen and forty others where their children. Yahweh became the tribal god of Israel, who was eventually merged with Yahweh and had Ashera as his consort. Ashera was the mother-goddess and was worshipped as the goddess of motherhood and (this is important) wisdom. One of Ashera’s holy symbols was a snake coiled around a tree or branch.

I think Ashera worship continued through about 200 CE, but it was steadily crushed and was in fact specifically called out a couple of times in existent writings as they moved from explicit henotheism to “monotheism,” with the scare quotes to indicate that having things like angels and spirits and demigods and such are not exactly monotheistic.

In any case, the “fall from paradise” is a pan cultural myth that continues to the present day with idealizations of prehistorical societies that were destroyed by agriculture and the rise of civilization (see Graeber’s extensive work on this). This was just a politicized version of that.

Disclaimer if it changes anything: I’m a Christian, and this is my theology response.

Ok, lets look at the Garden of Eden as a parable about God’s parenting (an important angle, but not the only important one). I think you’ve done a great job, but you’ve missed a couple of crucial details.

• With God, you never have to go on your own. Human parents can’t provide for every need forever, which is why they need to prepare the child to leave home, but an immortal, omnipotent, omnipresent God can. The lack of preparing isn’t necessarily a bad mark on God’s parenting, because his role in parenting is different to ours.

• I think you’ve got the wrong idea of what the tree of knowledge of good and evil really is, and by extension what Satan is really doing here. Since I’ve started looking into theology, I’ve found that wording it as the tree of “the right to define good and evil”, rather than “knowledge” makes far more sense. Before that point, they were trusting God (which is fair enough, given he’s God and all that), but by eating that fruit they’re basically saying “fuck you dad, stop telling me to get enough sleep and not come home drunk. I’m moving out so I can do all the fun things without you getting in the way” (a bit extreme, but you get my point). It wasn’t the “I’ve learnt all I can here, so now I’m moving out”, or a “you’re an abusive parent, and I’ll never thrive with you around”. The closest thing to it is the rebellious teen thinking they’re being held back.

• If humanity leaving was as healthy a decision as you’re implying, why do Christians exist? If we knew God lied to us to try to keep us contained, we would never be going back to him. Christians see it as much more like the prodigal son. We chose to leave God so that we could see the real world. Turns out the real world is shit, so now we’re coming back to God, knowing that he actually does know what’s best for us.