Commercial Flights Are Experiencing ‘Unthinkable’ GPS Attacks and Nobody Knows What to Do::New “spoofing” attacks resulting in total navigation failure have been occurring above the Middle East for months, which is “highly significant” for airline safety.

  • thehatfox@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    27
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    1 year ago

    This sounds rather dangerous. GPS was originally opened up to civilian use for the purpose of keeping flights on course, after the disaster of Korean Air Flight 007 straying into Soviet airspace and being shot down back in the 1980s.

    I can’t understand what is to be gained by deliberately trying to knock civilian airliners off course.

    • Forester@yiffit.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      22
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      GPS guided drone attacks. Civilian GPS top out at 300 m a second. Anything beyond that is a missile and GPS refuses to work unless you have one of the special government GPS chips without the limiter.

      • CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        1 year ago

        Would that be relevant for a drone attack? I wouldn’t think a drone that isn’t operated by a state actor is likely to be moving that fast, and presumably a state actor could build their own chips without a limiter?

      • shortwavesurfer@monero.town
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        Are you meaning 300 measurements per second? Because civilian gps has an accuracy of ~3 meters. I may be misunderstanding though

        • ironeagl
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          10
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          The GPS chips have internal limits on how fast they think they can move. If they determine that they are moving faster than 300m/s they will stop outputting any results for a period of time. This limit is, IIRC, put in at the silicon level, so only military chips can bypass it.

          If you try to use mapping apps on a plane you sometimes run into this issue.

          • sanmarzano@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            6
            ·
            1 year ago

            It is trivial to make your GPS receiver firmware ignore these limits. There are even open-source receivers (SwiftNav piksi, for example). Modifying a binary is much harder, but not impossible for a motivated state like Iran or Russia. It’s best to think of the COCOM limits as suggestions.

          • EarMaster@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            But even the fastest airliners at the moment (A330 neo) moves slower than 300m/s. Wikipedia claims that COCOM limits are even higher so I don’t think that they are the reason for the inaccurate tracking on planes.

            • ironeagl
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              Turns out it’s 1000 knots (~600m/s), or 18,000 feet. So it’s the altitude in this case. But a slow-moving drone at <18,000ft is fine.

            • ironeagl
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              Maybe a misapplication then. I’ve run into it with model rocketry before (for good reason)

          • shortwavesurfer@monero.town
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            Oh, neat. I was not aware of that. I have seen that before but thought it was due to the phone not being able to lock on to the signal from inside a big metal tube.

    • onlinepersona@programming.dev
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      1 year ago

      Holy shit, that really happened? Just finished watching “For All Mankind” and recognized some events, but had no idea this one was real.

    • _s10e@feddit.de
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      I can’t understand what is to be gained by deliberately trying to knock civilian airliners off course.

      You don’t deal with terrorists, do you?