• @VarykOP
    link
    02 months ago

    Thanks, I did read the community info and recent posts and understand that while the community itself is definitively focused on prison reform, it’s using the word “abolition” to telegraph how far reform must go.

    Abolish purely punitive detainment and focus on rehabilitative detainment.

    I can see how a catchy slogan with that complex sentiment is more difficult to nail down.

    • MambabasaM
      link
      fedilink
      English
      32 months ago

      No, prison abolition means the abolition of all detainment.

      • @VarykOP
        link
        1
        edit-2
        2 months ago

        Oh. How do you rehabilitate actively harmful societal elements within that context if they are allowed to continue having society at any moment?

        • punkisundead [they/them]
          link
          fedilink
          English
          32 months ago

          My take: Well if the leave, the problem somehow took care of themselves. Ideally other communities would be informed about that fact, so the dangerous person has to take accountability before joining another community without working on themselves. So by leaving they are potentially choosing exile till they are ready to actively work on themselves. Idk how that would work for those that dont have a real choice because of a personality disorder or similar things.

        • MambabasaM
          link
          fedilink
          English
          22 months ago

          Criminals are created, not born. If we address the root causes of criminality, then criminals disappear. You cannot address the root causes of criminality if you imprison people.

          • @VarykOP
            link
            12 months ago

            Criminals may disappear; others will appear.

            Many statistically equitable and privileged citizens still regularly become criminals, but there should certainly be an effort by less equitable societies to mirror the legislative successes of those more equitable.

            • MambabasaM
              link
              fedilink
              English
              32 months ago

              Abolition means also the abolition of criminal laws. Criminalization defines who in society are deemed as disposable. After criminality has been abolished, this will not mean that harm and conflict disappear. Rather, abolition means dealing with harm and conflict in a healthy way.

              • @VarykOP
                link
                12 months ago

                That is reform, not abolition.

                It’s already being done by other countries.

                You’re also defining criminalization here in a way that it’s not commonly used, so a community-specific dictionary would help focus your community.

                The words being used in this community have different standard meanings than how you’re using them, and you’re saying that the way you’re using them is how they’re meant to be interpreted.

                If these words are meant to be interpreted in a specialized way, but you don’t explain those new definitions beforehand, it isn’t surprising that you’re going to get some pushback by claiming that blue is red.

                • MambabasaM
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  32 months ago

                  Again, abolition includes reform, but its ultimate goal is the revolutionary abolition of the carceral system.

                  As for definitions, surely you can be smart enough to realize dictionary definitions aren’t the be all end all? Besides, my patience wears thin and I am beginning to believe you’re not here to engage in good faith, so I’m becoming increasingly disinterested in continuing this conversation.

                  • @VarykOP
                    link
                    12 months ago

                    Removed by mod