Heh, see, the user you replied to is doing the thing. A rational and logical argument that leads you towards a specific conclusion. That sounds a lot like being told what to do. Their response was essentially “you can’t tell me what to do”.
My journey into trying to understand the conservative ideology began after Trump. I wanted to know what makes them tick. After exploring, I settled on Religion/Racism. But something wasn’t right. Which led me to authoritarianism and hierarchy. That was it. But why preserve hierarchy? Which led me to social dynamics and capitalism. What baffles me is that most are unaware that this is what they are preserving.
I had a similar journey, around the same time. As an engineer, I tried to evaluate the situation in the same way that I’d analyze a system failure - that is, by conducting a “5 whys” (otherwise known as an RCA) in an attempt to drill down to the true root cause. I came to the exact same conclusions, along pretty much the same lines of investigation and research.
I’ve been low key trying to broach the subject with my family for fucking YEARS, and until about a month ago, nobody seemed concerned at all. I’d try to build a logical argument, and get shut down by “oh our society and government has guardrails for these sorts of things”.
Like, ok, fine. Let’s for the sake of argument assume that’s true (though I think at this point, that’s been decisively disproven). Tell me what the guardrails are, and let’s discuss how effective they’ve been at limiting authoritarian oversteps by one particular political party (and yes, I’m also very done tiptoeing around the fact that there is one political party that’s turning into overt fascists, and that the party in question is the GOP).
Answer: our guardrails haven’t been effectively guarding anything. The only reason January 6th wasn’t a successful coup by the Republican Party is because a handful of people were like “ok this is a little too fucked up for me to go all in on”. We CANNOT rely on the ethics of a half dozen or so bureaucrats slamming on the brakes next time, because next time, they’re going to replace all the people with a semblance of ethics with people who don’t have any ethics before they go for it.
I’m glad people are starting to actually see and understand what’s been going on with the seriousness it deserves, but it still feels like it’s too few people, and they’re not realizing it fast enough. We’ll see how this all pans out in a few years, I guess…
I’m pessimistic in the short term, but optimistic for the future. I don’t think the current iteration of fascism can be stopped (hope I’m wrong). We’re not taught this stuff in schools, by design. And people don’t have the educational foundation nor the psychological ability to break down why we do what we do. On January 6, I laughed because they were doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.
To add: this is why my comment history is so cynical. All the posts about Trump, DeSantis, etc. aren’t getting to the root cause, just noise.
If you have any idea on how to get from here to there, let me know. I’ve been listening to David McRaney recently, he has some good ideas about how to talk to the less aware.
It’s almost as if we’re in something a lot like the Star Trek timeline. I’ve been watching through DS9 again, and a couple days ago got to Past Tense, which deals with the (in universe) 2024 Bell Riots in San Francisco. And it’s SUPER weird to watch, because the “sanctuary districts” (where the riots start) are basically just homeless encampments that they built walls around (so, ghettos). And the episode fairly pointedly also deals with wealth inequality, rampant late stage capitalism, the collapse of social safety nets, which overlaps with most of the serious societal issues we’re dealing with today IRL.
So yeah, hopefully deeper into the future everyone will be like “wow that sucked, glad we’re past that”. But I have a pretty strong suspicion that the next few decades are gonna absolutely suck to live through.
You’d like the Expanse. It’s mostly in space the first season, but deals with the inequality and walled cities in the second season. Mars becomes the economic center,has the better military, and Earth gets left behind. There’s also a one world government, scarily prescient. Always thought Jeff Sessions looked like Quark.
Not trying to demonize. I think todays conservatives meet the criteria for fascism.
Fascism is generally defined as a political movement that embraces far-right nationalism and the forceful suppression of any opposition, all overseen by an authoritarian government. Fascists strongly oppose Marxism, liberalism and democracy, and believe the state takes precedence over individual interests. They favor centralized rule, often a single party or leader, and embrace the idea of a national rebirth, a new greatness for their country. Economic self-sufficiency is prized, often through state-controlled companies. Youth, masculinity and strength are highly fetishized.
So militant nationalism that can’t be criticized. The population would be encouraged to shout slogans, fly flags and recognize the in-group with salutes, hats and gestures?
For those wondering what ideology the U.S. Presidents fall into here you go. When you strip away the political party you can see the trends in U.S. History. This is also U.S. Presidents’ ranked as well.
Heh, see, the user you replied to is doing the thing. A rational and logical argument that leads you towards a specific conclusion. That sounds a lot like being told what to do. Their response was essentially “you can’t tell me what to do”.
My journey into trying to understand the conservative ideology began after Trump. I wanted to know what makes them tick. After exploring, I settled on Religion/Racism. But something wasn’t right. Which led me to authoritarianism and hierarchy. That was it. But why preserve hierarchy? Which led me to social dynamics and capitalism. What baffles me is that most are unaware that this is what they are preserving.
I had a similar journey, around the same time. As an engineer, I tried to evaluate the situation in the same way that I’d analyze a system failure - that is, by conducting a “5 whys” (otherwise known as an RCA) in an attempt to drill down to the true root cause. I came to the exact same conclusions, along pretty much the same lines of investigation and research.
Fascinating. Good to know I’m not the only one. I try to tell others about it, but they make me feel like a leper.
Lol are you me?
I’ve been low key trying to broach the subject with my family for fucking YEARS, and until about a month ago, nobody seemed concerned at all. I’d try to build a logical argument, and get shut down by “oh our society and government has guardrails for these sorts of things”.
Like, ok, fine. Let’s for the sake of argument assume that’s true (though I think at this point, that’s been decisively disproven). Tell me what the guardrails are, and let’s discuss how effective they’ve been at limiting authoritarian oversteps by one particular political party (and yes, I’m also very done tiptoeing around the fact that there is one political party that’s turning into overt fascists, and that the party in question is the GOP).
Answer: our guardrails haven’t been effectively guarding anything. The only reason January 6th wasn’t a successful coup by the Republican Party is because a handful of people were like “ok this is a little too fucked up for me to go all in on”. We CANNOT rely on the ethics of a half dozen or so bureaucrats slamming on the brakes next time, because next time, they’re going to replace all the people with a semblance of ethics with people who don’t have any ethics before they go for it.
I’m glad people are starting to actually see and understand what’s been going on with the seriousness it deserves, but it still feels like it’s too few people, and they’re not realizing it fast enough. We’ll see how this all pans out in a few years, I guess…
I’m pessimistic in the short term, but optimistic for the future. I don’t think the current iteration of fascism can be stopped (hope I’m wrong). We’re not taught this stuff in schools, by design. And people don’t have the educational foundation nor the psychological ability to break down why we do what we do. On January 6, I laughed because they were doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.
To add: this is why my comment history is so cynical. All the posts about Trump, DeSantis, etc. aren’t getting to the root cause, just noise.
If you have any idea on how to get from here to there, let me know. I’ve been listening to David McRaney recently, he has some good ideas about how to talk to the less aware.
It’s almost as if we’re in something a lot like the Star Trek timeline. I’ve been watching through DS9 again, and a couple days ago got to Past Tense, which deals with the (in universe) 2024 Bell Riots in San Francisco. And it’s SUPER weird to watch, because the “sanctuary districts” (where the riots start) are basically just homeless encampments that they built walls around (so, ghettos). And the episode fairly pointedly also deals with wealth inequality, rampant late stage capitalism, the collapse of social safety nets, which overlaps with most of the serious societal issues we’re dealing with today IRL.
So yeah, hopefully deeper into the future everyone will be like “wow that sucked, glad we’re past that”. But I have a pretty strong suspicion that the next few decades are gonna absolutely suck to live through.
You’d like the Expanse. It’s mostly in space the first season, but deals with the inequality and walled cities in the second season. Mars becomes the economic center,has the better military, and Earth gets left behind. There’s also a one world government, scarily prescient. Always thought Jeff Sessions looked like Quark.
Oh 100% - I’ve read the books, and watched the series. Both are a ton of fun, and really interesting.
Amos is the best, btw :D
What thing? I didn’t put nearly as much thought into my comment as you think I did.
That much is patently obvious
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@momotimetodie is a huge troll. Worth a block.
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Lmao not everyone who disagrees with you is a troll bub
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I’d be interested if you did put some thought into it. I genuinely want to know what you think 🤔
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Not trying to demonize. I think todays conservatives meet the criteria for fascism.
Fascism is generally defined as a political movement that embraces far-right nationalism and the forceful suppression of any opposition, all overseen by an authoritarian government. Fascists strongly oppose Marxism, liberalism and democracy, and believe the state takes precedence over individual interests. They favor centralized rule, often a single party or leader, and embrace the idea of a national rebirth, a new greatness for their country. Economic self-sufficiency is prized, often through state-controlled companies. Youth, masculinity and strength are highly fetishized.
Can you help me understand how that’s not MAGA?
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What defines fascism to you? Stalin? Black Lives Matter?
“Everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state”.
So militant nationalism that can’t be criticized. The population would be encouraged to shout slogans, fly flags and recognize the in-group with salutes, hats and gestures?
Umberto Eco defined fascism (well, ur-fascism - or the warning signs of fascism-on-the-rise) across a detailed 14 point list of traits.
The GOP checks all 14.
They are fascist because the literally meet all the criteria & traits of fascism.
For those wondering what ideology the U.S. Presidents fall into here you go. When you strip away the political party you can see the trends in U.S. History. This is also U.S. Presidents’ ranked as well.