• SuddenDownpour
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    7 months ago

    “Look at me displacing almost 2 million people and bombing their homes and cities whole to the ground one by one. It’s not a genocide though, because I haven’t explicitely claimed that my goal is to commit a genocide.”

      • Pennomi@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        When entire civilian populations are bombed or starved, then yes. The US is not free of war crimes. They’re merely immune from the consequences.

        • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          Not just the US. Chechnya was invaded by Russia. German civilians were bombed by the UK and USSR.

          In fact, it’s hard to find a large-scale modern war that didn’t cause thousands of civilian casualties.

          • Pennomi@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            Absolutely, there were millions of civilian casualties in WWII. The difference here is that there have been, according to Israel, only 273 soldiers killed in ground operation combat vs the 13,000 civilians killed on Gaza’s side. (According to the new, lower estimates.) This is not so much a war as a one-sided beatdown.

            • DarkGamer@kbin.social
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              7 months ago

              Are you really suggesting that every asymmetrical war that is conducted successfully is genocide? O.o

              • Pennomi@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                No, I’m saying that if a nation has such a huge advantage they also have more responsibility to select targets carefully so as to not kill noncombatants.

                • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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                  7 months ago

                  A nation taking lots of casualties has the same responsibilities as one taking few casualties.

                  That said, the proportion of civilian casualties to the total population of Gaza is comparable to that of Chechnya and less than in Vietnam, North Korea or the East Front of WW2. Unfortunately, civilian casualties are an inevitable part of modern war.

            • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              I mean, there isn’t any obligation in war to make sure casualties are evenly distributed among both sides.

              Normally, a lopsided war ends only when the losing side surrenders.

      • can
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        7 months ago

        Now you’re getting it

          • can
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            7 months ago

            When it’s targeted at a specific group of people and there’s such a dramatic power imbalance, yes. Whether modern definitions agree or not.

            • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              All wars are targeted at a specific group of people.

              So if your definition amounts to a highly favorable balance of power, then all countries at war would aspire to make it a “genocide”.

              • can
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                7 months ago

                All wars are targeted at a specific group of people.

                Yes, my wording was vague. But say you went to war with Canada, a diverse nation. It would feel different if you broadly targeted all Canadians rather than specifically indigenous Canadians, or black Canadians, for example.

                And putting this on the table now: I am Canadian and I recognise my country was built upon its own genocide.

                Edit: Someone else feel free to chime in, I still don’t feel I am conveying this well

                • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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                  7 months ago

                  Ok, then why would a hypothetical US invasion of Canada (which today, unlike in 1812, would be imbalanced in favor of the US) be better than an Israeli invasion of Gaza?

                  • can
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                    7 months ago

                    It wouldn’t be better but the circumstances would determine whether my mind would immediately jump to calling it that. I’m not necessarily quick to jump to claiming genocide but I won’t readily denounce it.

    • DarkGamer@kbin.social
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      7 months ago

      It’s almost as if words mean things and have specific definitions, especially legal ones. Feel free to criticize such behaviors with different accurate words for things you don’t like.

      • SuddenDownpour
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        7 months ago

        If someone punches you to death, declaring they weren’t trying to kill you doesn’t make them any less guilty of murder.

        • DarkGamer@kbin.social
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          7 months ago

          If someone punches you to death, declaring they weren’t trying to kill you doesn’t make them any less guilty of murder.

          Actually, in the US it could. Intent is the difference between murder and manslaughter.

          • Aceticon@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            Curious how you moved the goal posts from “not openly stating one’s intent” which was used as justification to claim what Israel is doing is not a Genocide to “not having intent” which is what defines the difference between murder and manslaught.

            People are convicted of murder all the time when they didn’t openly said their intention was murder if it can be shown beyond reasonable doubt that it was their intention.

            So the previous poster’s point holds very well and you just further dug the grave on yours.