You don’t have to sell me on climate change protests. I’ve attended a few myself.
I’m criticizing the delivery, not the message. The majority of people that heard that protest were those who travelled from around the world to see Stonehenge. Their plans were ruined, and they don’t care any more about climate change than they did that morning. Some may even resent the protesters.
Performative radicalism is only compelling to those already behind a cause. It’s discrediting to everyone else, who should be your target audience.
Is it? I used to bring literature to protests, now I bring QR codes. I’ve personally educated hundreds, if not thousands on initiatives over the years. That drives more change than ruining a family trip. Being compelling has been more successful than being loud in my experience.
I advocate for the cause I protest, not myself. How many people do you think will be compelled to care or learn more about climate change after this protest? How many people’s plans to see Stonehenge were ruined, leading to resentment of the cause?
Activism isn’t like Trump’s campaign. Bad press is in fact, bad press.
They have compelled more discussion in this single thread than you have with your whole life. Your moral grandstanding is nice. Effective tactics are nicer.
Discussion of what? Awareness of what? How do you see debating the method as success in discussion or awareness of a problem? If it were successful, we’d be sharing talking points, research materials, compelling speeches, etc.
This was an egotistical attempt to get noticed. It worked as intended.
We’re not talking about anything of substance because of you and people like you purposefully and disingenuously distorting the facts. Its fucking cornstarch. I haven’t had kids because I think the world isn’t going to be around for my grand kids and its selfish to create new life with that knowledge. But you keep talking about the fucking cornstarch as if these people smacked your mother. Shut the fuck up. Get some perspective you pompous dolt.
Not exactly a good thing… One of the problems with making a lot of noise is drowning out the voices of others on the same side.
Political capital is a thing, utilizing it in a protest that doesn’t really accomplish anything but turning public sentiment against your cause is kinda a dumb way to spend it.
You say they’re spending political capital. I say they’re building political capital. They’re creating a fuss. They’re creating noise, which can then be turned into action. What are you doing?
I say they’re building political capital. They’re creating a fuss.
The people who think of this as a net positive are already supportive of climate change initiatives. So who exactly are they building political capital with?
They’re creating noise, which can then be turned into action.
How? In what situation is there a problem that is more easily solved when people “make a fuss”?
The majority of people that heard that protest were those who travelled from around the world to see Stonehenge.
I didn’t travel to see Stonehenge and I’m hearing about it. So is everyone in this thread.
Their plans were ruined
And I see that now that the stones have been shown to be undamaged the dismissal of the protest is pivoting to “the poor people taking recreational flights have had their entire trip ruined!!!”
If people become less likely to take unnecessary flights because protestors might “ruin their trip” I would consider that an absolute win.
I’m criticizing the delivery, not the message.The majority of people that heard that protest were those who travelled from around the world to see Stonehenge. Their plans were ruined, and they don’t care any more about climate change than they did that morning. Some may even resent the protesters.
"You know, I don’t disagree that the coloreds should have more rights, but did they really need to sit at the lunch counter all day? I couldn’t sit at the counter and it made my lunch take so much longer. Really inconvenient to everyone trying to get some food.
I just wished they’d go about it differently. They’re liable to make people even less accepting of them if they keep pulling stunts like that."
I hope you know that’s what you sound like. Like, read the first paragraph of MLK Jr’s Letter from Birmingham Jail and you’ll see your argument in the “white moderate”:
I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can’t agree with your methods of direct action;” who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a “more convenient season.”
You don’t have to sell me on climate change protests. I’ve attended a few myself.
I’m criticizing the delivery, not the message. The majority of people that heard that protest were those who travelled from around the world to see Stonehenge. Their plans were ruined, and they don’t care any more about climate change than they did that morning. Some may even resent the protesters.
Performative radicalism is only compelling to those already behind a cause. It’s discrediting to everyone else, who should be your target audience.
I don’t care fucking one bit. It’s the same shit.
That’s the same argument white liberals used during the civil Rights movement.
Is it? I used to bring literature to protests, now I bring QR codes. I’ve personally educated hundreds, if not thousands on initiatives over the years. That drives more change than ruining a family trip. Being compelling has been more successful than being loud in my experience.
I’ve heard of them. I’ve never heard of you. Your experience is insufficient data to be making this grandiose of a statement.
I advocate for the cause I protest, not myself. How many people do you think will be compelled to care or learn more about climate change after this protest? How many people’s plans to see Stonehenge were ruined, leading to resentment of the cause?
Activism isn’t like Trump’s campaign. Bad press is in fact, bad press.
They have compelled more discussion in this single thread than you have with your whole life. Your moral grandstanding is nice. Effective tactics are nicer.
Discussion of what? Awareness of what? How do you see debating the method as success in discussion or awareness of a problem? If it were successful, we’d be sharing talking points, research materials, compelling speeches, etc.
This was an egotistical attempt to get noticed. It worked as intended.
We’re not talking about anything of substance because of you and people like you purposefully and disingenuously distorting the facts. Its fucking cornstarch. I haven’t had kids because I think the world isn’t going to be around for my grand kids and its selfish to create new life with that knowledge. But you keep talking about the fucking cornstarch as if these people smacked your mother. Shut the fuck up. Get some perspective you pompous dolt.
How often do you successfully get others to care about a cause with abrasive condescension?
Not exactly a good thing… One of the problems with making a lot of noise is drowning out the voices of others on the same side.
Political capital is a thing, utilizing it in a protest that doesn’t really accomplish anything but turning public sentiment against your cause is kinda a dumb way to spend it.
You say they’re spending political capital. I say they’re building political capital. They’re creating a fuss. They’re creating noise, which can then be turned into action. What are you doing?
The people who think of this as a net positive are already supportive of climate change initiatives. So who exactly are they building political capital with?
How? In what situation is there a problem that is more easily solved when people “make a fuss”?
Not turning potential allies into enemies?
What are you doing?
This argument is pointless. Neither of you is right. Arguing for or against optics is pointless.
I didn’t travel to see Stonehenge and I’m hearing about it. So is everyone in this thread.
And I see that now that the stones have been shown to be undamaged the dismissal of the protest is pivoting to “the poor people taking recreational flights have had their entire trip ruined!!!”
If people become less likely to take unnecessary flights because protestors might “ruin their trip” I would consider that an absolute win.
"You know, I don’t disagree that the coloreds should have more rights, but did they really need to sit at the lunch counter all day? I couldn’t sit at the counter and it made my lunch take so much longer. Really inconvenient to everyone trying to get some food.
I just wished they’d go about it differently. They’re liable to make people even less accepting of them if they keep pulling stunts like that."
I hope you know that’s what you sound like. Like, read the first paragraph of MLK Jr’s Letter from Birmingham Jail and you’ll see your argument in the “white moderate”:
Those people were protesting that they weren’t allowed to sit at lunch counters. These people are not protesting the color of Stonehenge.
This argument is pointless. Neither of you is right. Arguing for or against optics is pointless.