Dance dance dance. This was no debate, this was a rich demonstration of your ability to deviate, distract, and entirely miss the point. And you still can’t present a shred of evidence. Clownshow.
The current legislative definition, and the fact that Congress is free to expand it, gives me everything I need. I don’t even need to resort to the myriad contemporaneous statements by the founding fathers describing the militia as the “yeomanry” or the "whole body of the people.
Your acceptance of a training program that would apply to everyone upon reaching adulthood was an unexpected piece of evidence, but a welcome one.
And, lest we forget, this whole argument rests on the complete lie that the right to keep and bear arms is contingent on militia “service”. It is clearly guaranteed to “the people.”
No, this entire argument is based upon the fact that you claimed, and continued to claim, without evidence that Militia and People are constitutionally synonyms. And here again you dance around that nonsense claim, trying to refocus on anything else because, I’ve again, you have absolutely no evidence to support this.
You convincing yourself of this nonsense is not evidence. Your personal interpretations mean exactly nothing to me.
But not with what you said, and not with what you’re currently saying.
Personally, I disagree with the definition in 10 USC 246; I believe the “unorganized militia” should still imply training, even though the members may not presently be active members of the National Guard. The right to bear arms should fall under the same kind of regulation as operating a vehicle: subject to training and demonstration of competence. But it is what it is.
But this is all secondary to the core issue of the claim that Militia = People, constitutionally speaking. Again, rectangles and squares. So long as the definition of one excludes some members of the other, no matter how large the subset, they are not synonymous. The specific vocabulary is crucial to legal interpretation, and the central point of my contention.
So long as the definition of one excludes some members of the other, no matter how large the subset, they are not synonymous
Agreed.
While the legislative definition does this, the constitutional meaning does not exclude anyone. TCase-by-case circumstances might render specific individuals unsuitable for being called forth under the militia clauses, but they are excluded by executive or judicial action, and not by definition. The constitutional meaning does not exclude anyone.
Under the constitutional meaning, the most heinous criminal in death row is still a member of the militia, and can theoretically be called forth, even though no executive officer would ever allow him to serve such a purpose. He is not deprived of the right to keep and bear arms due to not being in the militia. He is “deprived of life, liberty, or property”, including RKBA, through “due process” in accordance with the 5th amendment.
the constitutional meaning does not exclude anyone
Buddy, you keep just saying that like it’s some b ontological fact. I’ve repeatedly asked you for evidence to support that and you keep shifting focus to avoid doing so.
Until you can provide concrete, tangible evidence to support that interpretation, I’m not interested in hearing anything else. Show me documentation, not just your own assertions. No more dancing.
10 USC 246 already covers the entire male population (at some point in their lives) as well as some specific females. There is nothing preventing Congress from opening it up to the remaining females. That is concrete, tangible evidence to support my interpretation.
The Federalist Papers, specifically #29, discuss the militia as being comprised of “the great body of the yeomanry, and of the other classes of the citizens”. It refers to a “scheme of disciplining the whole nation”
While most of the paper discusses “the formation of a select corps of moderate extent, upon such principles as will really fit them for service” (aka: The National guard) it also discusses militia obligations on “the people at large”:
Little more can reasonably be aimed at, with respect to the people at large, than to have them properly armed and equipped; and in order to see that this be not neglected, it will be necessary to assemble them once or twice in the course of a year.
Congress does not see fit to maintain such assemblies today, but they did exist back then, and they could be reinstated at will tomorrow. Any member of the “people at large”, is thus also a member of the militia.
10 USC 246 does not cover males under 17 or over 45, these are part of the People who are not legislative Militia. Hypotheticals are not evidence.
The Federalist Papers are not the Constitution. If you draw a distinction between the constitutional and legislative, I’ll draw a further distinction against commentary.
I am a proponent of disciplining the whole nation, and have no problem whatsoever considering the disciplined portion to be unambiguously a part of the Militia. If Congress does indeed reinstate assembly to properly arm and equip every member of the People, I will promptly concede. But hypotheticals are not evidence.
Dance dance dance. This was no debate, this was a rich demonstration of your ability to deviate, distract, and entirely miss the point. And you still can’t present a shred of evidence. Clownshow.
The current legislative definition, and the fact that Congress is free to expand it, gives me everything I need. I don’t even need to resort to the myriad contemporaneous statements by the founding fathers describing the militia as the “yeomanry” or the "whole body of the people.
Your acceptance of a training program that would apply to everyone upon reaching adulthood was an unexpected piece of evidence, but a welcome one.
And, lest we forget, this whole argument rests on the complete lie that the right to keep and bear arms is contingent on militia “service”. It is clearly guaranteed to “the people.”
No, this entire argument is based upon the fact that you claimed, and continued to claim, without evidence that Militia and People are constitutionally synonyms. And here again you dance around that nonsense claim, trying to refocus on anything else because, I’ve again, you have absolutely no evidence to support this.
You convincing yourself of this nonsense is not evidence. Your personal interpretations mean exactly nothing to me.
You don’t seem to be offended by the concept, just the specific vocabulary. Your use of “adults” is perfectly consistent with my meaning and intent.
But not with what you said, and not with what you’re currently saying.
Personally, I disagree with the definition in 10 USC 246; I believe the “unorganized militia” should still imply training, even though the members may not presently be active members of the National Guard. The right to bear arms should fall under the same kind of regulation as operating a vehicle: subject to training and demonstration of competence. But it is what it is.
But this is all secondary to the core issue of the claim that Militia = People, constitutionally speaking. Again, rectangles and squares. So long as the definition of one excludes some members of the other, no matter how large the subset, they are not synonymous. The specific vocabulary is crucial to legal interpretation, and the central point of my contention.
Agreed.
While the legislative definition does this, the constitutional meaning does not exclude anyone. TCase-by-case circumstances might render specific individuals unsuitable for being called forth under the militia clauses, but they are excluded by executive or judicial action, and not by definition. The constitutional meaning does not exclude anyone.
Under the constitutional meaning, the most heinous criminal in death row is still a member of the militia, and can theoretically be called forth, even though no executive officer would ever allow him to serve such a purpose. He is not deprived of the right to keep and bear arms due to not being in the militia. He is “deprived of life, liberty, or property”, including RKBA, through “due process” in accordance with the 5th amendment.
Buddy, you keep just saying that like it’s some b ontological fact. I’ve repeatedly asked you for evidence to support that and you keep shifting focus to avoid doing so.
Until you can provide concrete, tangible evidence to support that interpretation, I’m not interested in hearing anything else. Show me documentation, not just your own assertions. No more dancing.
10 USC 246 already covers the entire male population (at some point in their lives) as well as some specific females. There is nothing preventing Congress from opening it up to the remaining females. That is concrete, tangible evidence to support my interpretation.
The Federalist Papers, specifically #29, discuss the militia as being comprised of “the great body of the yeomanry, and of the other classes of the citizens”. It refers to a “scheme of disciplining the whole nation”
While most of the paper discusses “the formation of a select corps of moderate extent, upon such principles as will really fit them for service” (aka: The National guard) it also discusses militia obligations on “the people at large”:
Congress does not see fit to maintain such assemblies today, but they did exist back then, and they could be reinstated at will tomorrow. Any member of the “people at large”, is thus also a member of the militia.
10 USC 246 does not cover males under 17 or over 45, these are part of the People who are not legislative Militia. Hypotheticals are not evidence.
The Federalist Papers are not the Constitution. If you draw a distinction between the constitutional and legislative, I’ll draw a further distinction against commentary.
I am a proponent of disciplining the whole nation, and have no problem whatsoever considering the disciplined portion to be unambiguously a part of the Militia. If Congress does indeed reinstate assembly to properly arm and equip every member of the People, I will promptly concede. But hypotheticals are not evidence.