If there are no consequences to saying no, it isn’t coercive. It’s the difference between begging and saying “if you don’t, I’ll threat”
The threat can be minor, something like “I’ll tell everyone you’re a lousy lay” all the way up to “I’ll tell everyone you raped me” or less direct like “I’ll stop paying the car payment”, or “I’ll evict you”.
But, as nasty as not taking no and backing off immediately is, it isn’t the same as coercion or force. Even being very pushy about it, even using physical contact isn’t coercion, though whether or not such behavior should be illegal is an interesting possibility. The difference is whether or not the target of the “seduction” can walk away freely.
If they can, if they can enforce their no and leave, even if they don’t exert that ability, or isn’t coercive, just douchey.
Now, there is another issue in there. Some people may not believe they can freely and safely exit. That’s part of why when someone says no, everything stops, period. Other people may freeze up and be unable to exit, despite having the freedom to, which is another reason we have to make sure that we not only exhibit good sexual behaviors, but teach those ethics whenever needed.
But as far as something being rape or not, that is the ultimate determinant, the freedom of the person to say no, and exit the situation. Legally, it may well not matter if the person nagging the other for sex is aware of the target wanting to exit, but having internal barriers preventing it. That’s something laws and juries have to deal with. But for the purpose of discussion like this, that’s the line.
It really sounds like you are saying its only coercion if its successful. You also seem to be implying someone can’t be raped if there was someway they could have escaped along the way. Its very similar to saying if they can’t talk they can’t say no.
Okay so a I try and kiss my friend who is a girl. She pushes me off and says no thank you, and so I wrap my legs around her and pull her tight to me and try again.
Not coercion? Its completely subjective whether the girl is free to leave or not, so which is it then?
Dude. Either you have some kind of compulsion to misread just to extend an exchange, or you’re trying to troll me. There is no way you got that from what i wrote.
At this point, I’m finished. If you’re really acting in good faith, go look up the definition pf coercion and pretend I said that.
If there are no consequences to saying no, it isn’t coercive. It’s the difference between begging and saying “if you don’t, I’ll threat”
The threat can be minor, something like “I’ll tell everyone you’re a lousy lay” all the way up to “I’ll tell everyone you raped me” or less direct like “I’ll stop paying the car payment”, or “I’ll evict you”.
But, as nasty as not taking no and backing off immediately is, it isn’t the same as coercion or force. Even being very pushy about it, even using physical contact isn’t coercion, though whether or not such behavior should be illegal is an interesting possibility. The difference is whether or not the target of the “seduction” can walk away freely.
If they can, if they can enforce their no and leave, even if they don’t exert that ability, or isn’t coercive, just douchey.
Now, there is another issue in there. Some people may not believe they can freely and safely exit. That’s part of why when someone says no, everything stops, period. Other people may freeze up and be unable to exit, despite having the freedom to, which is another reason we have to make sure that we not only exhibit good sexual behaviors, but teach those ethics whenever needed.
But as far as something being rape or not, that is the ultimate determinant, the freedom of the person to say no, and exit the situation. Legally, it may well not matter if the person nagging the other for sex is aware of the target wanting to exit, but having internal barriers preventing it. That’s something laws and juries have to deal with. But for the purpose of discussion like this, that’s the line.
It really sounds like you are saying its only coercion if its successful. You also seem to be implying someone can’t be raped if there was someway they could have escaped along the way. Its very similar to saying if they can’t talk they can’t say no.
Man, it really sounds like you can’t read. I’ve explained it a couple different ways, and you simply aren’t getting it. This one is on you.
Okay so a I try and kiss my friend who is a girl. She pushes me off and says no thank you, and so I wrap my legs around her and pull her tight to me and try again.
Not coercion? Its completely subjective whether the girl is free to leave or not, so which is it then?
Dude. Either you have some kind of compulsion to misread just to extend an exchange, or you’re trying to troll me. There is no way you got that from what i wrote.
At this point, I’m finished. If you’re really acting in good faith, go look up the definition pf coercion and pretend I said that.