• agamemnonymous
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    13 hours ago

    No? Once reason restricts passion, the hierarchy collapses. An action that causes yourself mild pain, but pleasure of greater extent to others, is preferable to an action that causes many others pain even if it gives you pleasure personally. Reason demands you restrain yourself from the passions that would harm others. That’s not unilateral fealty. Axioms must be assumed, but the most powerful systems assume as few as possible, and leave most of the legwork to reason.

      • agamemnonymous
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        5 hours ago

        I disagree. Reason can take you there by virtue of justice or equality.

          • agamemnonymous
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            4 hours ago
            1. I am a sentient creature that feels pain and pleasure

            2. Others appear to be sentient creatures that feel pain and pleasure

            3. Pain is bad, so I should avoid inflicting it

            You don’t need empathy as an axiom to derive it rationally

            • xthexder@l.sw0.com
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              22 minutes ago

              Statement #3 is hearsay. I would argue the only thing you can know is that you personally do not like pain. There is no absolute good or bad, only what aligns or doesn’t with your passions (using the term loosely here).

              The Golden Rule of “treating others as one would want to be treated”, is a logical conclusion that comes from experiencing the world and seeing that there’s a high probability that others will return actions in kind. It’s not perfect since everyone has different preferences (just look at the variety of sexualities and kinks out there).

              • agamemnonymous
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                12 minutes ago

                It is the logical extension of noticing the similarities between yourself and others, and noticing that you do not enjoy pain. It’s certainly not mathematically rigorous, but it follows from simple reasoning nonetheless. If you wanted to be rigorous, you can’t even claim that you don’t like pain, only that you haven’t liked specific instances of pain in the past. Some estimations are necessary for a functioning framework of any kind, including ethics.

      • Comment105@lemm.ee
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        12 hours ago

        It’s not exactly something everyone has. There are quite a few psychopaths and sociopaths and a huge amount of narcissists out there

            • Dragon Rider (drag)@lemmy.nz
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              5 hours ago

              Personality disorder rates are higher in high-income countries. Whereas about one in 10 American adults (if not slightly more) meet diagnostic criteria for a personality disorder, the worldwide prevalence is lower—sitting at about 8%, according to a 2020 literature review.

              Put that with the 6.2%, and that makes it sound like most personality disorders are NPD. That sounds unbalanced and suspect. Where did you get that figure? Drag always heard 1% for each.

              • xthexder@l.sw0.com
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                17 minutes ago

                How does that study account for the fact a high income individual is significantly more likely to have access to a doctor to diagnose them with a personality disorder?