Yeah that’s just radarr devs not actually packaging the thing.
It’s not about blame. From a user’s perspective, it doesn’t matter who is to blame. The bottom line is that Linux is harder to use in a lot of scenarios. Torvalds was right: it’s going to take Valve to statically link everything and force developers to use the same libraries. Then it’s trivially easy for devs to maintain a .elf distribution which can be executed across all Valve-compliant Linux distros.
I think youre misrepresenting what Linux is supposed to be, it runs most Walmart displays, kiosks, medical systems, and servers.
Its just now branching into a more usable desktop environment, but its going to do this the right way.
As time as shown is the windows way is incredibly bloated and unstable - I wouldn’t dream of running a critical server off of it, nor even a non-critical one like radarr. Undocumented issues are just part of the game in the windows world.
Taking the easy route will kinda by definition be easier at first.
Though ngl I find it incredibly easier to enter
nix-shell -p radarr
than to navigate to a webpage, download and install an arbitrary executable, give it absolute admin privellages to the ebtirety of my computer to let it ‘do its thing’ for a bit, and be SOL if that doesnt all go perfectly.
I don’t think this works on most distros. Even if it does, isn’t this only installing Radarr to a temporary shell? Either way, CLI should never be required to install software. Not if the intent is consumer software. You do appear to make the argument that it’s not consumer software, which is fair. It’s just different from a lot of other claims about it being consumer software. So you can forgive people for thinking it’s meant for regular people. We should definitely make that clearer.
Nix package manager can be installed on (almost) any distro, I’m running it in an android termux right now for example. Side note if you want a fun project for an old phone you could probably run radarr this way, I’m using it for Garage s3 storage.
Without diving into the juicy details too much, the command does temporarily install it - in a way that its essentially free to reinstall anytime. For permanent setups you just have to add it to a text file, that could use a bit of a face life to be honest. Though comparitevly this would be trivial to implement vs the meat of the package manager itself
That’s not going to work radarr is a daemon. Well at least it’s not going to work as intended, you might be able to start the thing as a user, but it’s likely not what you want to do, you want the thing registered with systemd and start up and shut down with the system. We don’t nix-shell -p sshd either.
The bottom line is that Linux is harder to use in a lot of scenarios.
And who’s at fault? The devs. To wit, the radarr devs. Really, the minimum there should be calling what they describe “manual installation” and saying “we don’t package our software for distributions, consult your distro’s package manager radarr might be available”. It’s a daemon so it’s not like they can ship a flatpak, deamons need system integration.
The whole sonarr/radarr/prowlarr/whatever-rr dev folks don’t seem to be particularly Linux-affine in general. I consider it windows software that happens to run under linux, developed by presumably windows users running linux on their seedbox because if there’s one thing that’s worse, even for windows-heads, than learning a bit of linux then it’s using windows in a server role.
After a long career in software development I’ve learned one important thing: everyone is motivated by incentives. Developers don’t package their software on Linux as frequently because they’re not forced to, and because it’s a huge pain in the ass compared to macOS and Windows. I don’t blame the developers for this. I blame the OS. Torvalds was right: this won’t be fixed until Valve forces everyone to use the same libraries. Then it’s super easy for the Radarr devs to provide a single executable across all compatible distros.
I guess in an ideal world all the developers would voluntarily package their software well, but that’s just not reality and it will never be.
The trouble with the *rr stuff isn’t libraries, it’s as far as I know all written in .NET, but system integration. Setting up users and permissions, starting the daemon, if necessary punch a hole in the firewall.
I, too, watched Linus’ rant about diving software and that neither distros should be required to package random-ass applications, and app developers shouldn’t be forced to package for random-ass distros. That’s why we have flatpak. There may or may not come a time where such a thing also exists for daemons but it’s not the top priority, also, if you’re running radarr you’re not just a random user, you’re at the very least a power user. Random users direct their browsers to a website, click a link, which then opens qbittorrent. Which btw also has a rss feature. You don’t need a daemon process to do all this stuff, I doubt radarr sets up a system process or whatever it’s called in windows, either, you can do it as a user. The whole design of the thing assumes that you run it on a server, and, therefore, know how to run a server.
As such, two observations: First, that radarr is not a good example subsurface is (and precisely what Linus was talking about), secondly, power users know even less what users actually want than devs.
It’s not about blame. From a user’s perspective, it doesn’t matter who is to blame. The bottom line is that Linux is harder to use in a lot of scenarios. Torvalds was right: it’s going to take Valve to statically link everything and force developers to use the same libraries. Then it’s trivially easy for devs to maintain a .elf distribution which can be executed across all Valve-compliant Linux distros.
I think youre misrepresenting what Linux is supposed to be, it runs most Walmart displays, kiosks, medical systems, and servers.
Its just now branching into a more usable desktop environment, but its going to do this the right way.
As time as shown is the windows way is incredibly bloated and unstable - I wouldn’t dream of running a critical server off of it, nor even a non-critical one like radarr. Undocumented issues are just part of the game in the windows world.
Taking the easy route will kinda by definition be easier at first.
Though ngl I find it incredibly easier to enter
nix-shell -p radarrthan to navigate to a webpage, download and install an arbitrary executable, give it absolute admin privellages to the ebtirety of my computer to let it ‘do its thing’ for a bit, and be SOL if that doesnt all go perfectly.
I don’t think this works on most distros. Even if it does, isn’t this only installing Radarr to a temporary shell? Either way, CLI should never be required to install software. Not if the intent is consumer software. You do appear to make the argument that it’s not consumer software, which is fair. It’s just different from a lot of other claims about it being consumer software. So you can forgive people for thinking it’s meant for regular people. We should definitely make that clearer.
Nix package manager can be installed on (almost) any distro, I’m running it in an android termux right now for example. Side note if you want a fun project for an old phone you could probably run radarr this way, I’m using it for Garage s3 storage.
Without diving into the juicy details too much, the command does temporarily install it - in a way that its essentially free to reinstall anytime. For permanent setups you just have to add it to a text file, that could use a bit of a face life to be honest. Though comparitevly this would be trivial to implement vs the meat of the package manager itself
That’s not going to work radarr is a daemon. Well at least it’s not going to work as intended, you might be able to start the thing as a user, but it’s likely not what you want to do, you want the thing registered with systemd and start up and shut down with the system. We don’t
nix-shell -p sshdeither.And who’s at fault? The devs. To wit, the radarr devs. Really, the minimum there should be calling what they describe “manual installation” and saying “we don’t package our software for distributions, consult your distro’s package manager radarr might be available”. It’s a daemon so it’s not like they can ship a flatpak, deamons need system integration.
The whole sonarr/radarr/prowlarr/whatever-rr dev folks don’t seem to be particularly Linux-affine in general. I consider it windows software that happens to run under linux, developed by presumably windows users running linux on their seedbox because if there’s one thing that’s worse, even for windows-heads, than learning a bit of linux then it’s using windows in a server role.
Docker is the best alternative but also not good for beginners.
And presumably you want that fixed. To do that, you have to figure out who needs to do work. In one way or the other, that’s going to be the devs.
We might be using different connotations of “blame”, here. Like, I’m using the
git blameone.After a long career in software development I’ve learned one important thing: everyone is motivated by incentives. Developers don’t package their software on Linux as frequently because they’re not forced to, and because it’s a huge pain in the ass compared to macOS and Windows. I don’t blame the developers for this. I blame the OS. Torvalds was right: this won’t be fixed until Valve forces everyone to use the same libraries. Then it’s super easy for the Radarr devs to provide a single executable across all compatible distros.
I guess in an ideal world all the developers would voluntarily package their software well, but that’s just not reality and it will never be.
The trouble with the *rr stuff isn’t libraries, it’s as far as I know all written in .NET, but system integration. Setting up users and permissions, starting the daemon, if necessary punch a hole in the firewall.
I, too, watched Linus’ rant about diving software and that neither distros should be required to package random-ass applications, and app developers shouldn’t be forced to package for random-ass distros. That’s why we have flatpak. There may or may not come a time where such a thing also exists for daemons but it’s not the top priority, also, if you’re running radarr you’re not just a random user, you’re at the very least a power user. Random users direct their browsers to a website, click a link, which then opens qbittorrent. Which btw also has a rss feature. You don’t need a daemon process to do all this stuff, I doubt radarr sets up a system process or whatever it’s called in windows, either, you can do it as a user. The whole design of the thing assumes that you run it on a server, and, therefore, know how to run a server.
As such, two observations: First, that radarr is not a good example subsurface is (and precisely what Linus was talking about), secondly, power users know even less what users actually want than devs.