• gravitas_deficiency
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    5 days ago

    They were not close to a deal. Putin’s desired endgame is “I own Ukraine”. Ukraine’s desired endgame is “Ukraine continues to exist and isn’t constantly hammered by Russian missiles and bombs”. There’s not really much room for negotiation there. Moreover, Putin has negotiated in demonstrably bad faith multiple times over the course of the war (and I mean since 2014, when they used unmarked soldiers to annex parts of Ukraine and “held a referendum”). I’m not claiming Ukraine is a flawless paragon of virtue, but at the same time, there are VERY clear good guys and bad guys in the Ukrainian government war. Russia is the bad guys.

    • jonne@infosec.pub
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      5 days ago

      I didn’t ever say the Russians were the good guys. I’m saying the West is happy to keep Ukrainians fighting and dying for geopolitical reasons. Zelensky was elected on a platform of making a deal and ending the war, and he wasn’t allowed to do that by the West.

      Eventually there will be a peace, and even though it would be fair that Ukraine gets all its territory back, realistically that’s not going to happen (and if it did, there’s the question of what happens to all the Russian speakers in those areas). The deal he could’ve gotten right after the failed Russian invasion would’ve been better than whatever he can get now, especially with Trump now basically being in Putin’s side.

      It’s just a case of the US continuing to push too far thinking you can just beat Russia with better technology, even though history has shown that Russian leaders are perfectly happy to just throw men into the battle until the enemy runs out of ammo.

        • jonne@infosec.pub
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          5 days ago

          They have, but they were promised the backing of the US, and now they’re not going to have it any more.